Safe Speed Forums

The Star - Yorkshire hereI think it very sad that the only way these authorities believe messages are learned is through attempts to shock and horrify. If the fundamental ability to not recognise danger is present then that needs to be addressed. For many this type of 'attack' at 'learning' fails to work, but it does not mean that people are not 'reachable' it is just the right balance and approach.
Education is good but not 'any' education at any cost!

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Shock tactics are quite effective though, are they not?

Although I haven't seen one for ages now, they ran a few graphic ads on TV some time ago with simulated crashes of a driver not 'thinking bike'. I actually thought they were a very good thing.

They used the same shock tactics for Aids back in the 80's which seemed to get the message across. I for one started to wear condoms, even when I was on my own

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Quite right, Tone. Recently Claire does seem to have become very negative recently, denigrating virtually every road safety initiative she sees - often, as in this case, on quite spurious grounds.
All teachers know that "shock and horror" is very good way of driving a message home. Many young or immature people do not readily realise how bad the consequences of their careless behaviour can be. The number of people who have changed their behaviour after being involved in an accident and having the consequences written in blood is legion.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

It seems some folks have become very argumentative recently.

I think the point was that the roadshow was apparently primarily focused on shock tactics.

The "that won't happen to me" attitude is apparent in many areas of life.
Personally, I think it much more beneficial to see the actions and attitudes leading up to these incidents, instead of focussing on the resulting outcome. Only the former is enlightening; the latter is merely an effective tactic, but effective for what exactly - fear of driving?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

All I meant was I don’t think it’s just my mature years which keep me from acting like an idiot on public roads but the weekly reminder’s of the consequences of doing something stupid, to myself or others, in great detail. (Too much detail sometimes, although not like a paramedic thanks goodness).

I remember being at a popular motorbike venue a few years ago, a pub called The Waterman, where there was a gazebo and two PC's on unofficial duty and a laptop showing a loop video of a biker who went under the wheels of a HGV. It showed everything, complete with blood squirting out from under the huge wheels across the Tarmac as both he and his bike was consumed underneath like a tree shredder. This was ‘for real’, captured on CCTV, and there wasn’t a single biker who watched it that wasn’t affected. There wasn't a single wheelie away from the pub that evening either.

You wouldn’t see anything like it on TV and it still stays with me today, as you can probably tell. I guess what needs to be done is proper research into what is the most effective means of inculcating road safety. No matter what you do or tactics you use it will be wasted on some who just have a screw lose of course but the bad and the foolish are still opposite sides of the same coin since either can just as effectively end life.

Well, that's what I think..

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I attended a Road Awareness Training (RAT) course run by our local fire brigade - out of choice, I hadn't been naughty!

I would urge you to attend - just ask at your local station when the next course is on.

The shock tactics worked in the past with seat belts etc., but that was with an older audience, who were less used to seeing such images in their entertainment media!

In their current format/target audience, the shock tactics FAIL, because to be honest, the youth of today see far more gore in the average console game, where they KNOW it won't happen to THEM.
Short of taking them to watch an autopsy, there is little to be gained from showing teenagers gory pictures intended to shock.

What DID hit home (my son and a friend attended the same course) was the filmed testimony of the relatives who related how their lives had been blighted by their relatives deaths - but they STILL think it won't happen to them.
The only students to benefit are the ones who don't really need that much training to prevent their being stupid anyway... like Tone's biker friends - who with experience under their belts needed only a little push to modify their behaviour.

Young drivers NEED to make mistakes - they learn more from that horrible feeling in the pit of your stomach as the vehicle starts to slide away from you into a wall or a tree, than any video.
What is needed is a place and time to be able to experience that safely... just once - too often and they become blasé.

If they all drove slow enough to avoid falling off the road, you would just be postponing the time when some freak circumstance within the posted limit saw them in difficulties, and in danger of hitting somebody coming the other way.... just like wrapping up your house in bubble wrap while your toddler learns to walk - sooner or later they ARE going to fall into something and bruise themselves - the SOONER that happens, the SOONER they will learn from the experience, and the sooner YOU can relax about their walking.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Now who is being mischievous? Is their a good reason why argument is depreciated? Other than people not wanting to hear opinions which contradict their deeply held beliefs?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I think there is at least an element of truth to this; I couldn't guess how significant that could be. These attitudes have been commonplace since well before the video game era.

Don't get me wrong - I do think shock tactics can have a beneficial effect, but not on their own or as the priority.

I would like to see conveyed a (technically realistic) association between attitudes and risk behaviours, to the outcomes and tragedies.
For example: a clip showing an narration of the thoughts, attitude and intended actions of a driver just before they lose it, would help trigger thoughts of foreboding in anyone who is having those thoughts and intending to carry out those actions. This could temper such invulnerable attitudes during risky moments.



I think this prior knowledge of limits and boundaries would help a lot.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

"Control Z" to undo, or "reset game" is a difficult concept to grasp in an era before video games.
But the degree of realism in the graphics of modern games is not matched by the feedback experience claimed by the manufacturers of all games! At best (or worse, depending on how you view it) they create an illusion - like Wii Tennis - it LOOKS like you hit the ball - but where was the feel of the ball striking the racquet? Did you miss it? Probably not if you never played tennis - and young drivers don't grasp the possible consequences of their actions UNTIL they have experienced them first hand.


True - but we did not have the volume of vehicles on our roads then.
I don't think cars were quite as fast then either, and the lack of in car safety features led to a degree of respect that is missing now.
You and I KNEW that our tyres would lose grip if we overstepped the mark, or it was wet. You probably checked your pressures regularly too - nearly everybody did when I was a teenager.
Does anyone check them in Grand Theft Auto?

Try and put yourself in the position of somebody that has grown up from birth in an age with this technology. Try and appreciate the influence it would have.

My son was trying to reverse up onto our drive, and the slope coupled with his inexperienced clutch/throttle control had him on the verge of a stall - so he gave a bit more throttle - released the clutch too far, and shot back up the drive, hitting our wheely bin.
The dent the wheely bin made in the body work for such a low speed impact gave him a great deal more respect for the affect of speed and what he took to be harmless plastic than he had before - AND he has had time to practice and improve his clutch/throttle control.

He also now understands that you cannot just UNDO or RESTART when you make a mistake - something which is ingrained in modern youth, and difficult for the older generation to comprehend.

I once heard it described as the ZAP culture - they want everything right now! But they think they can just switch off as quick too - they need to learn that they cannot - there are consequences to be faced which you cannot turn off once they happen.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I support what is known to be good and disapprove of what isn't.
The Fire service is part of the Camera Partnership and for a fire spokesperson to spout speed as if it is the only factor of significance is frankly appalling as it continues to imply that had someone simply kept their speed to the or within the limit they 'will have been' safe. Firemen / women know that many aspects make up a crash and I am sure he may have said more in the interview but as I am sure I am judged by what is said in the press so is he. So you learn to say less and only the key points that you want printed.
I will never agree with something because I am tired of or am bored of 'always' appearing to be negative. In fact that is easier! It is far harder, and far more stressful and tough to disagree. I wish they were implementing many, many more proper road safety procedures ... that way less people would be becoming part of the KSI stats!
And for your information I did agree with a road safety action just yesterday, on the radio as I agreed with a chap from the Lincs SCP, where proper engineering at a junction removed the speed camera and placed a roundabout at the junction, which improved throughput and claimed to be safer.
Do 'all teachers' know and use this tactic ? What every single one? Personally I doubt that very much. From a road safety Australian psychologist (Alex Jerrim (Sp may not be perfect)) programs that I have seen and the few young people I have spoken to this has not worked. They view games and state they are far worse ! That this often rides over them and they still feel it is not 'real'.
Bearing in mind what can be learned from 'self interest' of a better and safer life personally to each individual this would also hold true. As in we leanr better when we think we can benefit so e.g. don't hit someone because it will mess up your own life ... is the harsh reality is a stronger and harder hitting message.
Children who have attended adult prisons and heard and seen the harsher life and conditions realise what they may experience and that can help, plus with some guidance and trust and occupation to create worthwhile self projects they can get back on the 'straight and narrow', but there are always a few who still no matter what go off the rails ...
I think people forget some kids see far worse in their own homes, so shock tactics also just wash off in the dame way they have learned to cope with other emotional events so does this (way of 'teaching' if you dare call it that). I think much has failed when people are resorting to these types of last ditch attempts at imparting messages!
Mostly it has always been true that people remember a message when it is 'funny' .... How many people here still recall many of the clips from 'Mr Bean' and his driving escapades ? Positive messages work and often negative sad messages don't and certainly not long term.
Plus then we can also get into the 'what message are you really trying to teach'? Don't hit people? Well no one goes out to have an accident / incident ! Drive with care & consideration would be a much stronger more positive self interest message ...
But that is too late ! As I am sure you will agree. (I hope) so the whole system has failed them ... whether it is from the initial 'lack of' safety messages, the 'wrong' (slow down & all will somehow be 'safe') messages, failing to promote the right messages of how to drive / ride well and safely (all the time & in many situations), then whether any of the road markings and signs are wrong or in a damaged conditions or even if the road upkeep and condition is poor, then there are all the personal failed in skill, knowledge and ability, and couple that with a mix of this plus failed to judge or manage the risk well enough ... we need to always try to promote the right way to travelling safely first, long, long before any attempt to try and shock !

There is of course the simple fact that when you try to show a vast and growing speed camera industry that is spreading like a virus Globally it is highly likely that you are going to appear negative to many aspects of current actions and thinking ... it is very tragic as people are dying because of this failed road safety policy and until people in the top jobs are bold and strong enough to stand up against it, it will continue to bleed the motoring sector with money and with lives. As Paul said 'Saving face instead of lives'.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Exactly! You disapprove of new things because they haven't been yet shown to be good. We would still be living in caves if our ancestors had all taken that attitude rather than testing new ideas, keeping the good and rejecting the bad.


I can't see any reference to speed in your OP or the link to the Star.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Precisely. One driver or rider may view a tragic accident as that specific person in control making a completely stupid or bad mistake in skill judgement or managing risk. This is why is fails to to work because others fail to belief that they will fall foul of that same error (etc). And for the most part that is likely to be true ... however recent years has seen a general increase in SI accidents and we have all (probably) seen a series of cars all slide on the same ice sheet as none recognise the same problem exists ! Were non of them looking or thinking ?
And this is cause for that failure, lack of forethought to anticipate, to plan to consider to recognise an environment might be risky or even dangerous ... and shock tactics deal with the disaster not how to recognise the impending one. That is what needs to be 'drummed home'.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

What 'new things' have I disapproved of precisely? Speed camera's - that is old ! I am not opposed to proper research and proper scientific study to show better methods. When I attended a Road Traffic Conference they had many new ideas that I was most encouraged and please to see being developed ...
OK that was in another report that I have added to the forum elsewhere - sorry.
I have corrected the quote to now read "The Star - Yorkshire". The link to "The Star" is there, where it says 'here' like I usually do ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Staged rescue promotes road safety in Gloucester
Norfolk police target drivers who use mobile phones
Bid to drive down young road deaths
Proposed new "on the spot fines"

And that is just this week

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Suggesting improvements is not disapproval of the action.


Asking why there is action despite there is a lack of data, is not disapproval of the action

So not really a case of "virtually every" !

Not completely unrelated.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign