Safe Speed Forums

Firstly, I was simply answering that is was possible to hold a phone under your chin with your shoulder, and I have seen other motorists do this! No where have I ever said that I either approve of this, or do this ! I think perhaps that you have somehow assume that I do - maybe ?
So to be completely clear, one must always have, full control of your vehicle.
How can you 'disagree 100% with an enquiring mind' that seeks the whole truth ?
On a technical and legal level, I was explaining, or trying to, as to why I query the regulations, and answer your prior question.
How can I blatantly totally agree or disagree with something, when it is clear that there is more involved than first meets the eye, IMHO ?

I see things on two levels, one is a good, safe, defensive, best practice, motoring ability, and the other is the technical & legal issues.
The mobile phone use is an interesting one, as on the motoring road safety side, all my knowledge tells me that if someone is not in full charge or control of their vehicle, then this is not good. Distraction is an issue, but, by how much, and is it one of varying levels?
If a Law ends up creating a high level of fines, and is not providing any road safety benefit, then this is a conflict with the Law that ought to only act in the greater interest of the public, so when it is not, it must be questioned. Also if the law has been created from less than clear statistics or research (if any), then it also must be questioned too.
We know that people are still using hand-helds and in great numbers, and already in this thread is the discussion about operating a phone when static or moving, and those dangers or not. But people are not having all the accidents that we may expect if the use of a phone was by itself 'that dangerous in practice'.
So we need to look at the science, but sadly there is very little to look at.
We know that if someone is stopped and sat in a layby, with the engine running, the use of a phone is not a problem, and we know that if someone is operating a phone down a busy high street, they are probably not paying enough or proper attention to the road ahead, so it is more likely that an accident may ensue. But we have little evidence other than general distraction studies to 'assume' this.
So when is it really dangerous and when is it a mild 'distraction' - does that even exist and if so how many levels are there? Where and when should a law apply and how is that applied in practice ?
By asking these types of questions, it helps us to appreciate where good behaviours exist, and what is and is not safe or 'legal'. We shouldn't ever have over-enforcement of a Law, if in practice the dangers are not there.
As I said before all people are different. We need to understand conversation and how people visualise others or not, which takes us into understanding how we think when in a conversation, and how that reflects on our eyesight and observation skills.
Do we make all rules and regulations to the 'lowest common denominator' (the least capable person), or an average or another 'level' ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

So you're pretty much saying that you agree that a strict liability 'phone at the wheel' law is pointless, when a careless driving offence already exists?

In response to your anticipated cries of strawman, at a perfectly reasonable extrapolation of your logic, do you think people should be criminalised for using their phone whilst stationary? Note that this question only applies to while they are stationary, not presuming guilt based on anyone's assumption of what they may or may not do once traffic starts moving.

(It's pretty sad that I have to caveat so much common sense onto what should be obvious, but that's what your prior twisting and turning has led us to)

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Which is even sadder as instead of discussing things in greater detail and development, we stay at the starting point and never get past 'go'... sometimes !

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Before the legislation I used to use a mob in my hand and never once had a problem.

But I decided, before the law was introduced, that nothing is more important than having full control of my car, when It's moving, complete with 100% concentration on driving just like my driving instructor told me so long ago..

Would you be happy to have bus drivers use them? Would you be okay if pilots and co-pilots did too instead of concentrating on flight control?

I wouldn't!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

What is there to discuss?

As far as I'm concerned you should have both hands free all the time when driving a vehicle, clearly if you pick up and operate a mobile phone you do not have both hands free.

If you operated your steering wheel on your test with one hand you'd fail it.

And that's precisely the kind of simplistic thinking which has resulted in the poorly thought-out, knee-jerk legislation we now have.
Where, on the one hand, you get punished for phoning the boss to say that you're going to be late because you're stuck in a queue, and, on the other hand, you can engage in a high-power teleconference while simultaneously driving down a busy motorway, or a busy high street - provided you have a hands-free, of course

But that's really what this thread is all about. We need laws which are based on solid research, not simply what some committee somewhere thinks they ought to be.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Well, this guy clearly thought what he was doing was safe!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... wo-mobiles

your point being?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Well thank goodness we all drive automatic cars otherwise we would all be constantly crashing them. Nothing more to discuss!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Other test failures could possibly come from;

Stopping to pick up a passenger
Blowing your horn at a pedestrian
Turning on the radio
Calling in at the newsagents
Failing to adjust your mirror before setting off

....all of them dangerous?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I suppose you could always make a "citizen's arrest" on a traffic cop next time you see him holding the mic on his 2 way radio whilst driving!

If you change gear whilst turning on your test you will receive a minor mark, I know, I got one for it. If you pull a mobile phone out you will be instantly failed, probably asked to stop and be driven back to the test centre by your examiner.

And clearly you don't understand what having both hands free means. I can change gear but still have both hands free, but I can't hold a phone to my ear and have both hands free.

I still can't quite believe there are people here defending mobile phone use.

You're right, if you can steer and change gear with both hands free (assuming you drive a manual car) then I don't understand either - please enlighten me?

Yet again, you are missing the point by a country mile.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

There it is ladies and gentlemen, mark the time and date on your calendars, and make sure to spread the word! Here is weepej once again conveniently overlooking the points I have made to him, to take exception at the minutae, utterly missing the thrust of the debate, because to answer the very simple querstions put to him would expose himself as a poorly-reasoned simpleton.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Weepej: The only man to have passed his driving test without changing out of first gear.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

At the risk of looking like a dissident, I have to say I don’t understand why weepej is getting so much heat on this subject. &

I have personally nearly met my end while riding my bicycle because of someone using a mob while driving; (mentioned in another thread). I have lost count, in total since mobs became widespread, of the times I have been a passenger watching the driver f ing about with one while driving instead of concentrating on the road as they wobble along, in one case grazing the curb with the sidewall of his tyre.

Even if some people can use a mob with a degree of safety in some circumstances it is still nonetheless yet another ‘thing’ to add to the other ‘things' people should not be doing, or doing less of, while driving which act as a distraction. Even if you can drag the newspaper from the rear seat doesn’t mean you should or it’s a good thing. Just because you are able load a CD and select your favourite track doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. And what message does all this send to young and inexperienced drivers?

We can, and have, argued that speed cameras are a distraction, (at least I know I have), so I think it would be hypocritical of me to condone the use of a mobile phone while driving. My argument has been that if I am speeding but concentrating on the road and environment I am less of a danger than if I am distracted for a second or more. Without doing the maths I am quite sure I’m correct on that one. When I have seen drivers using a mob, I have watched them with their eyes off the road easily for two or three seconds; they may as well have their eyes closed at that point!

I never imagined a day would come when I actually side with weepej on a true road safety matter and feel like I am suddenly on the outside. I may as well go the whole hog and say I don’t think it is good for SS’s image either, as a road safety campaign. I am never going to condone the use of a driver using a mobile phone while in motion without a hands-free and if that is what is being suggested here then I am well and truly both saddened and shocked to the core!

Que: When is a driver not a driver?
Ans: When he or she is distracted!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Suggested? tone are you reading the same posts I'm reading? Several prominent SafeSpeed members including its sole representative are clearly condoning the use of a mobile phone whilst driving a vehicle.

Edit, I'l rephrase that, "clearly condoning the use of a mobile phone instead of driving their vehicle"

How did you change gear?