Safe Speed Forums

I agree.

...but I'm not sure sure about this last bit. I think that with a lot of tasks, occasionally increasing the degree of difficulty is sometimes JUST what is needed to prevent the person doing it from "switching off".

I agree.

So, the law acknowledges that something may not always be dangerous and therefore it was decided to make a different law to penalise people for doing something that wasn't always dangers...in case it was?


..which is part of what I think is wrong with the current situation.

As I said above, I'm not actually sure that's the case?

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Take the case of someone in the middle of the night who has been driving for many hours....I' know that driving and talking to a passenger would be less dangerous than just driving alone.....unless you are going to argue that there is no such thing as people falling asleep at the wheel....I've heard most of your more ridiculous claims but I'm sure that you have a few more up your sleeve yet.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

What is it with SCP (ex) staff, always somehow missing the confounding factors!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Isn't the official position on that to open the window to let fresh air in, turn the radio on to help keep you awake and above all, don't put yourself in that position in the first place?

I've never known myself be wide awake as I pass a service station and then turn into a zombie the second I pass it such that I can’t make the next for a walk, stretch or coffee break. I say again, driving is the most important thing and driving safely should be something to be proud of.

An inexperienced person might try to keep going, a wise and experienced driver would not.

(Still working on a reply Mole but I’m a bit pooped now and I need to ease into my mental slippers now before geting my ugly sleep after a long week, so it may be tomorrow now )

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

To be honest ,Tone although those all help, I don't think they fight off sleep as much as talking to someone and having a conversation.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I'm sure you're right there Grabs, but then you don't always have a person to speak to. Maybe if the radio is playing Fire Starter by Prodigy. Or this one I once heard in the middle of the night on the way down to Devon

Night night everyone.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

You will be talking about the laws that ban the carrying of firearms and large knifes then? After all carrying a loaded AK47 around public places isn't dangerous. It is only when you use it to put a bullet into someone's head that it becomes dangerous and there are other laws in place to deal with that.

Carrying a loaded firearm makes it all too easy to succumb to the temptation of shooting someone so we have laws to forbid it. laws to forbid it. Similarly using a HH might be safe in most circumstances but it is very tempting to continue the conversation when it ceases to be safe

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Absolutely, that’s why I included a little something in my sig. I don’t pretend to know everything on road matters, I am not that arrogant, and I like to keep an open mind. What's that expression something like 'when the facts change, I change my mind'. I am open to research, as I've said a million times. I just don't think you can wait and wait and wait, when you can see what's happening around you. IMO the Gov on this one would have been damned for doing this and damned for doing nothing - and also damned for taking so long to get research and data before a law was introduced or changed. It's very easy to condemn when you're not doing the job and making the policies.

In the time I’ve been here I have learnt so much and continue to. I don’t know what inroads, (no pun intended), are or have been made but one thing is for sure – if we are informed and educated that is most certainly the best way forward to make government sit up and notice that what they are doing or have done is wrong. And to that end I take my hat off to SS

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Not at all. I think my approach is consistent because we are talking about safe verses unsafe actions. The difference I keep making is that it is entirely unnecessary and an unacceptable distraction. You may say that’s just my opinion, I accept that but to rake up every argument related to speeding here would water down the argument specifically related to HH mob use which I am trying to get across. There are similarities, yes, but the devil is in the HH detail. Can it ever be safe to speed? Yes. Can it ever be safe to use a HH mob? I’m saying no because it’s an unnecessary distraction and if you have your arm up, unless your Mole you are restricting the important peripheral vision as in my earlier example of driving next to a clueless driver where I could have been waving my peepee at him. You are also not in full control of the car, I have a true story at the end of this. I didn't mention it on SS at the time because I felt like a fool and wasn't sure what lessons would be learnt. I think I know now...

Therefore, I say again does SS countenance creating blind spots or restricting your vision? If a small air freshener or cuddly dice, or whatever it be, is bad then so must holding your arm up. Do it again Mole, this time how normal people hold a mobile when you see them driving They can’t have it both ways.

Long posts are wearing so although there was more I’ll leave this as my thought for the day because I'm going around in circles and getting a bit dizzy.

The nearest I’ve come to an accident in recent times, which would have been my fault, was only about two years ago in the summer. It was when a stupid squirrel decided to commit suicide and thought the best way was to jump under the wheels of my 1.4 Polo. I swerved to miss him but overcooked it, nearly going into the hedge with hard braking and wild steering. Why? Because I only had one hand on the steering wheel! It was a hot day and he jumped out as I was opening the manually adjusted sun roof – big mistake!

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind I would have been in much greater control if I’d had both hands on the wheel. But I guess someone now is going to tell me we don’t know that, I can’t possibly know that and we need research.

There is also no doubt in my mind that it wouldn’t have been so different if it was a mobile in my hand instead, also up by my head. How could having my hand on a mobile or sunroof handle be better than on the steering wheel? Answer = It can’t!!! Maybe some think it’s better because it hones your skills to dextrously place the mob on the dash or passenger seat before placing your hand where it’s most useful? Maybe some think it’s a useful to perform a drop-test of your mob occasionally? Perhaps the delay in getting your hand on the wheel is a good idea and I haven’t the faintest idea what I’m talking about after 30+ years of driving and riding in all weathers on different continents so I should just shut up?

I will, for now

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Is there any point to this discussion ?
After all, the law exists. There is no chance of it being un-existed, there is a good chance of it being made more strict.
Mobile phone use a cure for tiredness ?
SURE, she had her tiredness cured for life.
Maybe SHE was trying to cure tiredness ?
Who knows.
Mind you, it's not only mobiles, it is also LAPTOPS

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

The point for me is to determine what is the official Safe Speed policy on this legislation? Whilst, as a non member , it doesn't affect me there are members like Big Tone who might well want to reconsider their membership if the official policy is to oppose the complete ban on using hand held telephones whilst driving.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Hi dcb.

When you have an argument with your spouse you don’t just throw the towel in and file for divorce; well I assume you don’t although it does depends what he or she did I guess.

You work through it and come to a mutual understanding and sometimes you have to agree to disagree, as me and others have said, and there’s nothing wrong with that. We can’t all agree all the time, that would just be unrealistic and fake IMHO. I just felt like I was being cajoled or expected to agree with something with which I vehemently disagree and had my own thoughts on.

Maybe it’s my overreaction, sensitively and highly strung nature but when someone or some people sweep aside my argument without giving my point of view a chance to be fully aired, or stamp on it before the ink is dry, I up the anti until they listen!

I don't appreciate 'when I want your opinion I'll give it to you' If it transpires that I am wrong I don’t have a problem with that, but you will either listen to my side as well or I will treat you with the same contempt that I feel I’m being treated with.

Whether it’s here, at work, my lover or my enemy, a debate is, (or should be), exactly that! If you can’t deliver your side then it simply becomes a lecture. I thought, and still think, my argument was entirely logical but the reason I joined SS is because it is the only voice of reason, that I know of, on the serious issue of speed and speed enforcement.

So no, I won’t be un-supporting SS at all bud and I say again that it is to Safe Speed’s credit that we can have such a discussion here where other sites are often consumed in a sort of kindred back-patting. We have far more in common which joins us than we ever do which separates us. There were also others who did agree with me and have the same experiences and reservations on HH, which is a comfort. So I am happy to let it go now...

It's been interesting for me and I hope we are all friends and perhaps the one thing to come out from this is a better understanding of each other.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

It seems one or two people need to be reminded this site is concerned with the use of speed cameras, not mobile phones.

Please see http://www.safespeed.org.uk/index1.html to appreciate that other issues have not been researched and analysed anywhere nearly as much, if at all, as speed cameras.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Although now with listed contact databases we can usually see who is calling and decide to take the call, or hit ignore, as appropriate. In fact the ease of communication that we have now-a-days makes calling people back more likely, than less, - doesn't it?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

The law refers to handheld mobile phones not ones held in a fixture or operated as part of the vehicles ICE.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I think the paralell would be more accurate of there was a law banning CARS (AKA firearms / large knives). It's not the phone that kills people.

I could say that it is not the gun that kills but the bullet But, in truth, neither guns nor cars, being inanimate artefacts, kill people. People, gunmen or drivers, do the killing. That, though isn't the point of the analogy.; which is that guns and handhelds are both banned because the temptation to use them inappropriately is too high to tolerate.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you here Tone! I certainly don't want the law repealed PENDING more research, I wan't more research so that the effects can be properly understood, with a view to a potential relaxation of the law if that's where the research ends up pointing. In particular, I don't feel that having a hand-held walkie talkie in your lap is in the least bit less dangerous, but the law currently allows it (and other forms of hand-held communication). Nobody has yet managed to give me a satisfactory explanation of why that isn't dangerous - and if it IS, then why the law doesn't ban it as well.



It's getting hard to respond to this one and keep it short, but I share your sentiments!
First of all, I still believe that branding one action (using a HH mobile) "entirely unnecessary and unacceptable" can also (and indeed, IS also) applied to exceeding the speed limit. You mentioned overtaking, and I mentioned that if the overtake caused you to exceed the speed limit, then the entire manoeuvre was "unnnecessary and unacceptable". That's not MY opinion, of course, but I think there are others on these fora that might hold such an opinion!

Ithink you mentioned earlier that you've seen loads of people with a HH up to their ear, completely oblivious to you next to them whilst driving along the motorway? Why not try a "control" for that experiment and wave madly / expose yourself / in some way try to attract the attention of, a significant sample of people who are NOT holding a HH mobile too. I have no figures to back this up, but I wouldn't mind betting that a similar number of people NOT using HHs wouldn't notice you either. I see lots of people on motorways staring into the distance and seemingly unaware of what's going on either side of them.



The only logical conclusion to that argument is that you should ban sunroofs too. While you're at it, you should ban cars with manual transmissions and all cars with stereos, and all cars wih opening windows, and, indeed, all cars with any control other than a steering wheel. In fact, it's the perfect argument against those who say "ah, but unlike all the other controls, a HH mobile is held for much longer periods of time" - because as you've just illustrated, the "incident" to which you need to respond suddenly, can occur at any time - usually when you least expect it! Certainly, the longer you have a hand off the wheel, the more likely you are to encounter a situation which could demand both hands on the wheel, but I don't believe that ANYONE drives at 100% concentration ALL of the time, and that the "blanket ban" is not the long term answer.

It would be interesting to know many accidents were saved, by the introduction of electric indicators in cars and if the fact, that people had to dangle their arm out of the window, for several seconds whilst indicating left and right turns and the fact that they were stopping (all at the same time as trying to manouvere a car and at a junction,usually) , actually caused any more accidents!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Round and round in circles, like a Teddy Tone. One mob, two calls, tickle me under my ear where the phone’s touching me...

Just goofin'

We will never know, but having our hands on the steering wheel, or handlebars, has to be better than not! So it’s a good job a safer alternative was thought of and turned a necessary action into an unnecessary action. Hmmm..

For the true cyclists here: When you have your arm out to indicate for a turn how does it make you feel? More safe or less? And please don't anyone tell me it's different in a car or I swear I will hunt you down and put strychnine in your coffee! It's safer in a car but not safer than having your hand where it belongs. Now where have I heard that before?

Oh no ya don't!!!

If there is no passenger to do it for me and it was really that slap my bare arris and spit on my neck important then I could have.. wait for it wait for it..

Pulled over and stopped somewhere safe to do it!

Now where have I heard that before?

(The nerve of that Moley; thinking he could get that one past me)

It's not a blanket ban on using one, you have the option of hands free. The long term answer is probably going to be longer battery life of mobs with Bluetooth as standard in all cars so it seamlessly ‘handshakes’ when you get in the car with automatic pick-up or reject of calls. And then one day we will wonder why this argument got so ridiculous.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

In the case of guns it is because the temptation to use them appropriately is too high.
Many honourable members would be pushing up daises by now if it was not for the total control of firearms.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing