Safe Speed Forums

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8568183/The-end-of-the-speed-hump.html



My experience has been that only compliant drivers who had no need to be deliberately slowed actually conformed, and the idiotic drivers who drive too fast continue to do so, even to the point of risking damage to their vehicles!

Interestingly the drivers responding to the Telegraph's survey seems to think the same.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I fail to see how making it easier for councils to implement stupid speed limits can be regarded as good news.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

As far as I can see, the stupid limits - so called 20mph zones - are already in place with the humps - the need to be self enforcing.
Under the new rules, the need to place extra signs along the limit instead of humps is taken away.

I have noticed the number of drivers taking on the councils for compensation is increasing - thanks in no small way to sites like FixMyStreet.com which make it so easy to report and monitor road faults - making the council liable for subsequent damage. When they don't maintain the humps or the lines, they are in a fix!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

interesting slant, when does a driver who is driving to the conditions / or the 85th percentile, suddenly change to an idiotic driver

IMO a spiral event, remove the bumps speeds will go up, speeds go up complaints will rise, surveys will be carried out, sooner rather than later deployment of vans will commence,

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now retired

I am delighted to see them go.
Damage to vehicles cannot be measured nor predicted.

I am concerned about a mass increase in liberal use of signs when in many places there are already too many already, but let's hope financial constraints will help keep this in check.

I have seen many people go slow enough for conditions but too fast over humps to not cause suspension damage which is very troubling.

Of those drivers that fall into the top 15% they will likely either be experts or reckless motorists, and those that are reckless will require a police patrol presence, not speed camera vans, to help prevent and potentially cure problem areas. I think this is what EarnestM was referring to.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=droomer+drive+windermere&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Droomer+Dr,+Windermere,+Cumbria,+United+Kingdom&ll=54.373927,-2.897526&spn=0.0029,0.009645&z=17&layer=c&cbll=54.373965,-2.897739&panoid=_-vq-sS6HWO3kLnHXNdtQQ&cbp=12,288.58,,0,-0.1

Simple to explain. Take into account, and ignore the Streetview camera's elevated position, and imagine you are sat in a family saloon approaching this curve, with cars parked - especially those on the inside.
Before the chicane/hump was put there, a few hotheads drove through at 28 - 35mph - a silly speed as the view ahead is restricted by both the bend and the parked vehicles... but at least the road was slightly wider.

Now they have a hump and chicane to contend with - and those same drivers approach at 28 - 30+ (in both directions) and (if they don't meet a more cautious driver coming the other way) plough straight on over the hump - potentially damaging their suspension set up, and placing other road users at risk! They are not all 4x4 drivers either!

Those drivers who always treated the roads and other users with respect continue to do so - but the kerb to kerb humps continue to exact a toll on their vehicles due to the height and shape - even at 5 - 10mph.

The situation (if you zoom out, you will see) is more serious because a park over to the left brings many children and pedestrians to this section of road. The hump (and others further on) have FAILED to improve the safety or bring down speeds, and instead have created a situation where a few drivers feel the need to speed up (to make up for lost time?) between humps, and in this one instance, reduced the visibility ahead for drivers and pedestrians!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

We have far too many bumps round here and some are so high/steep that people slow to 5 or 10MPH to go over them. So yes CO you are correct in the fact that average speeds will increase from about 15MPH to probably 27MPH but that doesn't mean that the camera vans will be making more money. Most people don't go above 30MPH between the bumps. Yes there will still be the moaners that perceive 25MPH as "breakneck speeds" but the environment should be cleaner for it.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

but the whole of Droomer drive has been traffic calmed, from Orrset road to Limethwaite Road, plenty of advance warning signs etc, no 20mph signs though, a better class of housing on Limethwaite road maybe the good residents of Droomer estate are a reason





yes there are some bad hump designs, i can think of one that resembles Beechers Brook in the rain, once the deterrent has gone the mean speed will go up, the " breakneck" speeds can be confirmed or dismissed by simple traffic data counter evidence, like a VAS for instance

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now retired

Which part of "idiotic drivers who drive too fast" (my bold) did you not understand?

Quick quiz: Which do you think most accurately describes the actions of most drivers when confronted with a series of speed bumps:

a) They slow down to around 20mph and negotiate the entire road at that speed, or

b) they slow down to around 5-10mph to negotiate each bump, and accelerate to around 30mph in between?

There's one fact which you seem to have some difficulty getting your head around, which is that, by and large, drivers slow down where and when they perceive danger. Making them slow down where and when there's no danger does absolutely nothing for road safety. In fact, traffic calming measures can be counterproductive - especially if they serve to increase danger. You cannot make a road safer by making it more dangerous.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

The way I interpret this behaviour is that it is a form of protesting and shows disdain for the system ... also shown too when people deliberately 'shoot' between humps too.

VAS systems are good as they help to educate and afford respect from the motoring public. I do see people brake gently and approximate speeds around the limit, and often slow to conditions appropriately.
I like the straight forward numeric values as it is an honest message but I do not like the camera one's as that implies, be scared for your licence and that teaches nothing but paranoia - failing to teach or remind about choosing the right speed for conditions.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

not my words, just very curious at what point, the "safe speed for the conditions" turns into "idiotic drivers who drive to fast" , but then i have previously asked when does driving at "safe speed for the conditions" turn into "free flowing speed" and subsequent "impact speed", would you care to answer



in what scenario the link that EM has highlighted [url]<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&amp;q=droomer+drive+windermere&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Droomer+Dr,+Windermere,+Cumbria,+United+Kingdom&amp;ll=54.373927,-2.897526&amp;spn=0.005687,0.021973&amp;z=14&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&amp;q=droomer+drive+windermere&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Droomer+Dr,+Windermere,+Cumbria,+United+Kingdom&amp;ll=54.373927,-2.897526&amp;spn=0.005687,0.021973&amp;z=14&amp;source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>[/url] gives a larger image, Droomer road is not a rat run to cut the journey time on the A5074

but for your quiz whats the distance between the speed bumps, are they like Droomer Drive, speed bumps within areas where chicanes are not possible [url]<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&amp;q=droomer+drive+windermere&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Droomer+Dr,+Windermere,+Cumbria,+United+Kingdom&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=54.375973,-2.900678&amp;panoid=Cuoh82z0B9kanN29173BMA&amp;cbp=12,324.75,,0,0&amp;ll=54.373927,-2.897526&amp;spn=0.005687,0.021973&amp;z=14&amp;source=embed&amp;output=svembed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&amp;q=droomer+drive+windermere&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=Droomer+Dr,+Windermere,+Cumbria,+United+Kingdom&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=54.3759[/url] or where it is feasible to put them, notice the priority sign and give way lines

also what vehicle are the drivers driving
a. personal vehicle (Financially responsible)
b. company car
c. company van
d. someone elses car (not Financially responsible)
e. motorbike
f. uninsured registered




i am not a highways engineer, are you ?

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now retired

This is the point of the proposed changes - to guide councils away from a policy of using humps which do not require the same level of admin. as road signs!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

EM didn't even mention "safe speed for conditions" in his entire posting, let alone in the same sentence.
The point he was trying to make is that people who drive at sensible speeds do so regardless of traffic calming, or lack of, whereas traffic calming doesn't stop some idiots from doing idiotic speeds,



I wasn't specifically referring to Droomer Drive, if I understand your garbled post correctly. Anyway, even if I was, what's so stop someone from slowing right down just for the chicaney bit, and speeding up immediately afterwards?



I would think that most drivers would be in their own cars. But that's really besides the point so let's assume, for the purpose of the question, that they're all in that category.



No, but that doesn't stop me from thinking. Why should it stop you? It's not exactly rocket science, you know.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

no i know that, but i take any post on here from seasoned posters to be the SS mantra, are you EM spokesman as well, i believe EM is man enough to stand his own ground, every post is open to various interpretations, so youu are twisting "safe speed for the conditions" into "sendible speed", until someone gets it wrong then its idiotic speed



I wasn't specifically referring to Droomer Drive, if I understand your garbled post correctly.
[/quote]

yes sorry about that i hoped the links would work



if they have fuel to burn nothing, but IMO if they are intend on doing it then the deterant of the bumps are there

for the record i dont like bumps as much as the next man, but as i said removing them might result in increased mobile patrols within certain areas



its not besides the point

company cars are treated differnetly to private cars, hire vehicles are different again

i used to quite often whislt driving my SCP van hold the vehicle on the clutch rather than use the handbrake, i never do that in my private car as i would have to pay for the clutch, i now drive 3 days a week for a distribution firm and yes my obediance of law is different again to when i drove a SCP van ( within reason i may ad)



try chatting to some

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now retired

An interesting link from Sustrans to Traffic Calming Guidelines - here.
The aim of the hump distances is so that 25mph is not possible to attain nor exceed (vehicle dependent). If humps were only placed in busy environments where conditions were always busy and thereby a slow speed is by choice anyway fair enough but they are not and it is not like they don't cause frustration and general upset.
Many parking places can return to the streets once they have been removed.
I have seen many people approach humps like they are zebra crossings.
I can also think of one location where they failed to work and were redesigned into one very long hump.

CamOp (ex) - What makes you think from that report that speed camera vans are the weapon of choice for Councils - as opposed to cheaper and now freely available road signs etc ? Or do you have other knowledge or info ?

It would be good to obtain a price for each humps removal !

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

just a hunch, removal of humps also removes the deterrant, installation of additional cheaper and freely available signs will have a slight deterrant, but from personal experience in community meetings etc, once the speeds creep up to a percieved community fast level, the complaints and letters will start. To which the council and ultimately the police will have a duty of obligation to address, perhaps vans will be the ultimate last resort, no doubt in sunny weather you will have a few PCSO's brandishing lasers like Butch and Sundance, from their PACT prioritys or policing pledge

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now retired

The few individuals who drive dangerously on estates like this are usually well known.
Our community police deal with these as and when they can, and have even seized a vehicle that was being driven without insurance.

In this case, there was NO request from local residents to install traffic calming. It was entirely at the whim of the district council.
The drains which are supposed to allow water to bypass the humps have been blocked since the second autumn after they were installed, so big pools of water build up behind them. Nobody comes to unblock them, or repaint the lines which are supposed to highlight the humps for safety.

Putting a chicane on a bend where visibility was already reduced was the high point of their stupidity.
Only the normal (safe) driving of the residents mitigates the risk CREATED by the "calming" measures!

The sooner they go, the better off we will all be... and the planet too!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

No, I'm not EM's spokesman, I merely pointed out that you probably misunderstood his posting. He's (I'm sure) big and ugly enough to fight his own battles (sorry, EM )
He, like myself and most other posters here, are our own people with our own views, and who disagree strongly on a great many issues, but who had our own independent views on speed cameras etc long before SafeSpeed came along - this site has just brought us all together.
So much for the SafeSpeed mantra - did you really think that some entity named 'SafeSpeed' calls all the shots and we just follow like sheeple?




Only because councillors have swallowed the 'speed kills' line.



Are you suggesting that people driving their own cars don't slow right down for bumps?



And some of us learnt how to use the clutch



What do you think they'd tell me?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

no EM is not a bad chap, just got a bit of a fixation with Ings and SC



and that makes you right, i dont see many posters from any emergency services here,



whats a sheeple , no comment



or do they serve their community



i am suggesting people treat bumps in the own cars with more respect, compared to those driving company vehicles, i do



phone them and ask them, where in the country are you i will spend a few minutes searching for the councilor members, the police contact, the fire service contact and any other contact you wish

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now retired

And your basis for this assumption is...?

Ings is on my route to and from work.

I pass it six days a week excepting my holidays, and therefore have first hand knowledge of the site and it's history - not gleaned from looking at statistics on paper.

As for SC, he just hands me the bullets, and I fire them!

Very early on a poster on the CSCP forums claimed that a "safety" camera van was hidden, so as to "ambush" passing motorists.
In response to SCs claim that none of the Cumbria vans was hidden, I quite light heartedly posted a picture of Ings in which the van could not be seen - at which point he claimed I had taken the picture on a day when the van was not there!



His arrogance is his undoing.

I pursue anyone who is corrupt and underhand in public office - e.g. David Blunkett... with the same enthusiasm when they are dishonest and adopt bullying tactics, it is only proper to post and highlight every indiscretion and arrogant behaviour.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!