Safe Speed Forums

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I think it's ok as a "bit of fun" but they need to weight it a bit according to usage. I imagine M3s, for example, get driven rather harder than Fiestas! I've always felt that the real prasie for engineering excellence ought to go to the cheaper small hatchback manufacturers. These vehicles are hugely cost-sensitive, they have to cope with massive fluctuations in weight (the weight on the back axle can double between unladen and laden), they usually get maintained on a shoestring, used for shopping runs in urban environments...

Supercar manufacturers, by comparison, have it cushy!

Of course, what do you mean by reliability anyway? "Totally" reliable cars are like unsinkable ships. They dont exist. In the practical world, part of the concept of reliability has to include the consequences of failure. Given the chioce of;

1) Car that breaks down every six months but can be fixed by the roadside by the driver in 15 mins or less using tools and parts carried in the glove box.

2) Car that breaks down every 4 years but requires tow truck, a week off road while repairs are carried out and a £1000 plus bill.

I would regard #1 as being the more reliable and the preferred choice.

(Is a bit like the old chestnut about which clock is more accurate, the stopped one or the one that loses a second a day...)

All of which reminds me about an extreme holiday company I read about a couple of years back. They did overland trips on the Alaskan tundra. They applied for (and got) special EPA consent to retrofit their modern 4x4's with points ignition and carburettors! African versions of current vehicles such as landcruisers are often similarly equipped. Where reliability really is a matter of life and death there is a lot to be said for keeping things as simple as possible, even if more frequent tinkering is required to keep things running.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Gratuitous posting of my motorbike coming up which just the other day clocked-up its 50,000th mile from new.

It has never gone wrong and no mechanic has ever touched it, not even for the first free service. All I have ever done is change the oil and filter regularly. I haven’t even checked the shims, although that’s a poor admission. Now that’s Japanese reliability for you.

I got home with one mile short of the biggy, so went round and round in circles like a teddy bear until it came up. I’ve never looked at the Speedo so closely. It would be 60,000+ if the price of fuel wasn't so high

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

The use of electronic controls in modern cars has made them much more reliable than in the past but has rendered it impossible to fix them with "glovebox tools". However, you raise an interesting point about the definition of "reliability" used in surveys.

I don't think the mechanical aptitude of the driver should come into it so I would regard your number 2) as the most reliable - and I suspect so would most people.

For me, the failure must be one which prevents the car from being driven to be counted. Just having, for example, an electric window stop working might be annoying but should not figure in surveys.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I dunno - a lot of M3s and the like seem to be bought mainly for posing reasons and spend their time gently pootling around Prestbury and Halebarns, whereas it's often boggo Fiestas and Corsas that pass you at 90 on the motorway or get thrashed round twisty rural roads in Cumbria and Mid-Wales.

In contrast to bikes, in my experience it's rare to see performance cars being driven in a "spirited" fashion on rural roads.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I didn't know you had met my wife and her Pug 206!

I think the 206 is a great car for the money - and the 1.4 petrol is surprisingly nippy AND frugal when driven accordingly!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I think you are right because, by the time you are old enough to afford a proper performance car, you are old enough to have a bit of sense when driving it.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Good going Tone, what bike is it .... looks like a 1000cc V Strom?

My Kawasaki hasn't been quite so lucky, rust inside the fuel tank and a leaky fuel tap has caused a whole world of grief. Rust caused float valves to leak, leaky fuel tap let petrol through, carbs do not have any overflow pipes (pollution regs I believe), result was the engine filled ... and I do mean completely filled ..... with petrol when I didn't use it for a while.

Replaced fuel tank (found a brand new old stock one in right colour on ebay), replaced fuel tap with new one (there is a modified one to fix the known leaky fuel tap syndrome!), repaced the float valves, all the airbox to carb rubbers had gone hard so replaced all of them with new, new fuel pipe, and the exhaust had just given up so replaced the whole system (Motad were selling of the last ones they had for that model on ebay at reasonable price) .... knew I should have sold it last summer ... lol. Guess I'll be keeping it for a while now, just keep my fingers crossed the petrol hasn't damaged any internal seals or plastic parts.

One thing that really bugs me ... lack of grease nipples .... e.g. rear suspension links with no grease nipples for the bearings .... WTF!

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

It is a VSTROM Zippo.

I haven’t seen a grease nipple for about 25 years in this sealed-for-life low maintenance throw-away lazy wasteful world.

The most unreliable car I had was my second hand Morris Maria 1800 in 1983. The 500ft long prop shaft went twice! I thought the gear stick was going to jump up and hit me in the face at the time.

It also had niggles galore. When turning left I had to hold the indicator up throughout the whole manoeuvre because the switch had broke and wouldn't stay on without holding it. The three position 'rocker' light switch went too and a breakers yard wanted £3.45 for one so I told him to p s off because not only was that a rip off but since when does a breaker calculate components down to the last penny like that? It’s "two holes" or "four squid" FFS. £3.45 my foot!

The exhaust fell off, it suffered from clutch slip and I fitted an extra head gasket to try and cure a leak. (I couldn’t afford to get it skimmed). At least being a push rod made it easy. I've just remembered the heater switch went on just about all of the British cars I owned too, yet I've never once known it happen on foriegn cars. So I had to go from completely off straight to noisy position 3 and to change it was soooo awkward no-one ever fixed them, myself included.

It's the same on my old bicycle. I used to be able to replace the bearings in the bottom bracket of my Specialized Stumpjumper but when it finally cracked up I had to buy sealed SKF instead, of which I got through three in no time.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

What's the letter N in that green light for then Tone..?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I think that are like unsinkable ships too. They dont exist!

Seriously, I think that older cars suffered FAR more breakdowns than newer ones, and although many of those COULD be fixed at the roadside with tools & parts carried in the glovebox, I also think they probably suffered just as many breakdwns that COULDN'T be fixed at the side of the road as modern cars do. I'd like to see Tone do his head gasket or propshaft at the side of the road! My old Alfa is a good example. Every 100,000 miles or so (don't ask me why!) it used to melt a rotor arm and trash the distributor cap. Easy 15 minute fix at the side of the road with a rotor arm, dizzy cap, small Allen key and Phillips screwdriver. Used to carry them with me and be on my way again. Nowadays, of course, I don't even HAVE a rotor arm or dizzy cap to go wrong! Sure, I might get a coil pack breaking down and it might misfire (or, more likely, put its engine management light on before I even noticed the misfire) but I'd still get home! Part of the reason that modern cars need to have engine managment warning lights on them is because they're so GOOD at carrying on when something malfunctions that the driver wouldn't even know about it. If I ever see another carburettor, it will be too soon!

I agree that we should have a definition of "breakdown" and I think it needs to be something like "failing to proceed" (or something like that). If we agree on that definition, I think modern cars are considerably better. Yes, more things to go wrong (and more expensive when they do) but as we've said in the past, most of that isn't the manufacturer's choice, it's foisted upon them by regulators. Anyway, If I had a fault code reading app for an i-phone and suitable lead to connect to the diagnostic socket, would those count as "tools carried in the glovebox"?!

Had exactly the same thing with my lawnmower! Leaky fuel tap, lousy float valve, Briggs & Stratton full of petrol. I HATE carburettors!


But why? Surely it's better to have decent bearings and modern lubricants that just last the life of the car? That way, you don't need to waste precious resources making grease nipples! Sure, manufacturers sometimes cut costs (and corners) by under-specifying bearings and such components, but it should be perfectly possible to make bearings that require no maintenance and last the life of the car (say 250k and 15 years).

Is this one better Ernest?



There would normally be an O/D light on but it doesn't work after the mod. I think it stood for Over Dose

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

That would be all very well if they did last for 250k and 15 years! Take my motorcycle as an example, rear suspension linkages are scheduled (by Kawasaki) for a yearly strip and grease. The bike has done 16,000 miles and there is very evident wear on bearing surfaces. Ok the bike is 15 years old, I bought it with @ 7,000 miles on it and the wear was evident even then, (I stripped and greased the linkages straight after I got it). Steering head bearings on same bike had to be replaced at 14,000 miles, looked like a manufacturing defect, there was s*d all grease in there, wiped with an oily rag methinks! Oh yes and water had got in there too. The seals on said suspension bearings are crap. every time I've stripped it to grease, there has been water in there. I recon if I hadn't stripped and greased regular, I don't think the bearings etc. would make it past 20,000 miles.

Then there is the price of the parts, rebuilding said rear suspension linkages will require a robust constitution and best done with a nurse and bottle of oxygen standing by for when you hear the price ... handfull of 3/4 inch ish needle bearings, shafts and seals ... HOW F***ING MUCH!

Then there is the time involved, to grease said linkages ... first remove the fairing, then remove the exhaust, this lets you extract one of the pivot bolts .... its not a 1 hour job .... it takes fair chunk of time.

It might be perfectly possible for bearings that require no maintenance to be made, but if it's not the case, and in this case there is a yearly greasing service requirement ... grease nipples please! I'd much rather put a squirt of grease in every month even than have to srtip the whole thing every year.

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

Regarding bearing wear, those which take a load in full rotation last very much better than those with a reciprocating load over only part of their rotation. Thus, engine bearings last much longer than those in the suspension. This also applies to seals which take a set over the restricted range of motion.

Many suspension parts are also designed with a very large leverage ratio and small bearings (generally to save space) and this dramatically increases the load on the bearing contact surfaces leading to early failure.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Absolutely, motorcycle monoshock rear suspensions being one such case, high leverage, high loads, partial rotation, small bearing surfaces, crap seals ... ideal candidates for grease nipples and regular application thereof ... and possibly a way to rotate the shaft a bit occasionally so that its not same part of the surface taking high load all the time?

Some trucks I have driven had automatic greasing systems fitted to lube suspension pivots etc. continually.

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

I think modern stuff is so reliable due to the higher quality metal used and the tighter tolerances. That's not to say that the electronics and fuel injection aren't also a big factor.

My carburetered Yamaha FJ1200 had done 790000 miles when it finaly blew its head gasket. I completely stripped and checked the engine and just one shim was needed. Even the bores were still within manufacturers as new tolerances - that's "factory fresh", not "allowable wear"!

I note that in the Philippines only the newest up market vehicles (SUV's and such) have electronics and fuel injection. The most popular things on the road are Suzukis version of the Bedford Rascal/Hond Acty, imported from Japan at 4 years old due to Japanese MOT requirements. These are usually points ignition, carburretors, 6 volt electrics, 550 or 650cc and 4WD - yep, 4WD. The go until they fall in bits and get fixed with a hammer, a screwdriver and a pair of pliers.

New bikes over there tend to be electronic ignition, but retain carbs.

Isn't the most unreliable car presently the Land Rover Disco 3? A fabulous beastie when all is well, but just too many electronics (and muddy sensors) for its own good.

I can sympathise on the bike bearing issue - and I have almost no bike experience at all, but I'd be surprised if a long shaft and needle rollers was the most effective way to solve a problem like that! It was similar to the Citroen trailing arm bearings used on BX, CX and, I think, Xantia. Because of the obscene leverage ratios, they couldn't use rubber bushes, so the trailing arms swung on long bolts with taper (rather than needle) roller bearings at each end. The outer races of the bearings were pressed into the trailing arms and the inner races went round the long bolt that went through the whole assembly. Grease seals sat against the machined ends of the trailing arm casting. Those didn't have grease nipples and obviously lived in a hostile environment. That said, they'd usually last at least as long as rubber bushes on a conventional car and were actually cheaper to replace (as long as you didn't buy genuine Citroen bearings)!

Are you able to source non-genuine spares? Can you drill and tap the housing somewhere and simply add a grease nipple?

I shudder to think of the difficulty, these days,of marketing a machine that requires servicing every month. Even if the servicing is only a squirt of grease. in a couple of places.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown