Safe Speed Forums

For years, we have had to carry around a great deal of safety clobber when driving our own cars abroad, in deference to the laws of those countries, and now EU law. We have to carry a fire extinguisher, a set of spare bulbs, warning triangle(s), first aid kit etc. How much of this stuff will ever be used? If a brake light bulb is blown, how is carrying a spare bulb going to help when the driver does not know which end of a screwdriver to hold? Some cars need special tools for changing bulbs.

The latest addition to the inventory of gear that must be carried was made known to me this week as I crossed from Dover to Calais. A leaflet handed out reminded me that I must now carry a yellow reflective vest for every vehicle occupant - just in case there's a breakdown, and we all have to get out. In all probability, all this gear will remain unused for years.

Am I alone in thinking that all this is a bit over the top?

I'm not sure if I agree it is ott or not. I learnt to drive in Germany and things like a first aid kit (with rubber gloves after circa 1990), warning triangle, fire extinguisher and spare bulbs were manditory then and I did not question it.

I was stopped some years later on the m6\m54 (can't remember) and told one of my rear lights was out. The traf pols face when I said "thank you - I'll replace it now" was a picture!

I think the point is that in some cases these things are useful, just not very often (hopefully) and in my medium sized hatchback do not take up too much room.

(Also my friend had reason to use his fire extiguisher and was given a reward from the classic car owner as a result!)

Cheers

Paul

No, I don't think its OTT either. Continental drivers seem to accept it OK so I can't really see why we should feel the need to question, particualrly as its their countries we're driving through.
Bit of a shame things don't always reciprocate though isn't it?

Hmm. Not sure he/she should be behind the wheel if this is the case!
Most bulbs I have encountered in modern cars need the minimum of tools - even down to large plastic wing nuts which are easily undone with cold fingers!
I already carry one flourescent vest out of choice, not legislation, so while I think an extra 4 is OTT, it makes sense under a few circumstances! I also added reflective red dots to my doors, which show up from behind when the door is open at night.
There are too many idiots driving on the road for me to risk not taking every opportunity to ensure my survival.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

You've not come across a post '98 Citroen Xantia then. Especially one with aircon.

The L/H headlamp bulb there somewhere but I'm ****** glad it never blew. You'd need the arms of a spider monkey to get anywhere close.

Serves you right for buying a Citroen!
They are the poor relations of the Peugeot/Citroen partnership!
My mum's next door neighbour used to work in the Citroen factory at Rennes, in Brittany. He was pissed when he went to work! Last year he cut himself with a chainsaw while sawing logs drunk. All his neighbours worry in case they get a Citroen HE worked on!!
Actually, my Renault 19 was'nt easy until I found there was a really simple way of removing the clip which retained the plastic cover. I looked over the shoulder of the mechanic in France while he serviced it! I'll take a look in my book keepers Xantia next week!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I don't think that is an OTT idea at all, in fact, the more you can make yourself visible, the better for all concerned IMO.
Having said that, wearing a reflective vest doesn't guarantee that some moron will automatically see you anyway. Allow me to explain.....

In January 2004, a friend & I were making our way from Scarborough back to Hampshire and we were stopped by a Trafpol on the M1 at around 4.30 in the afternoon.
The officers "reason" for the tug was that I had a nearside tail light out. I pointed out to the officer that although I had one blown bulb, there were still 3 others that were working (2 bulbs fitted either side) and I still effectively had a nearside tail light even though only half of the cluster was illuminated.

The officer then went on to ask if I was insured to drive the vehicle as his computer indicated that there was no insurance in force relating to the vehicle. I answered that I was insured and was driving on a traders policy. Mr Silly Bollocks then went on to take my details and start issuing a 7 day wonder (HO/RT1).
I should add at this point that I was becoming just slightly concerned that some of the larger vehicles passing us while he had me pulled over on the hard shoulder, were passing a little bit closer than I was comfortable with.

While he was taking my details, I just happened to notice (over his shoulder) that a crappy 400 series Rover was bearing down on us at a fair rate of knots and that the car was in the hard shoulder with us.
I grabbed hold of the officer and literally dragged him over the armaco (crash barrier) on to the grass with me just in time as the aforementioned Rover smacked his police car straight up the arse.
In the short space of time that this all occurred, the officer thought I was attacking him and started to react accordingly. He only released his grip on me when he heard the almighty bang that 2 vehicles make when impacting at high speed.

Of course his police car being hit with such a great impact caused his car to connect with mine and caused a moderate amount of damage to the rear of my vehicle.

Long story short.......

I was allowed to continue my journey after the officer decided that I could drive without a rear bumper and most of the rear vallance stoved in as it didn't make my car dangerous "per se".

The guy in the Rover did not have any documentation at all (not even a UK passport) and I do believe he was placed under arrest and escorted to hospital.

The officers Chief Constable eventually ended up giving me "top penny" for my car once my solicitor pointed out that had his officer not pulled me for such a trivial reason to start with, then not only would my car not have been damaged, but I wouldn't have been suffering from the recurring "flashbacks" of the accident either


Of course in this particular incident, the driver of the Rover had no chance in seeing the police officer in his reflective yellow vest whatsoever given that he couldn't even see a 6ft wide car with luminous yellow stripes right across the back of it.
I do like to believe however, that not all drivers are this blind and that although they may not initially see you standing on the hard shoulder in ordinary clothing, wearing a reflective vest will get you noticed a lot sooner.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Well, I can tell you that my elderly mother would not know what to do to rectify a blown bulb. Does this mean that she should be banned from driving? As far as I know, there is no section in the modern day driving test that requires the candidate to demonstrate his or her prowess with a screwdriver.

I believe we were discussing continental rules, so while your elderly mother may be quite competant at driving to and from the shops, or even town to town to visit relatives, maybe she would not be competant enough to drive on the continent.
I suspect however that your mother probably DOES know one end of a screwdriver from another, but lacks the required dexterity.
I know of just such a couple, who now fly to Brittany, instead of driving from Cumbria - although they take their car when they are able to break up the journey by staying with friends along the way.
A blown bulb could be a serious challenge to her safety - I am sure you would wish for her safety to outweigh any inconvenience to her travel arrangements.
If she is aware of her limitations, I dont think a ban would be necessary, just a common sense approach to plannning her journeys - have her son or competant family member check bulbs, tyre pressures etc. BEFORE she sets off.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

My wife (Wildy ) learned how to drive in Germany. Written test examined the normal stuff - hazard percepetion and traffic rules/law, It also had a section on basic car maintenance. France, Austria, Switzerland and Italy have had this as L-test rubric for some time. UK plans to include this in theory test stem for this.

Makes sense to me. You should at least uinderstqnd how the car works to understand handling and defence.

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I've been to France on many occasions and driven thousands of miles there. I've been stopped a fair few times by "les gendarmes". It's usually on a Wednesday. I carry the spare bulbs, a first aid kit and a warning triangle but not the fire extinguisher (yet) however I've yet to be asked to see the aforementioned items. They only want the "permis de conduire" which is not a photocard one, the "certificat d'assurance" and they get the MOT certificate and the certificate of registration. They rarely understand the documents and just hand them back.
By the way the French only need an MOT (from the "Controle Technique") when they want to sell a vehicle, not annually like we have to have, and they're not interested in whether you have a valid VED disc as they don't have VED in France.
Everyone is very keen over here to tell us what we need over there but the practice and the theory are many miles apart. Obeying speed limits is another thing the French don't bother with much despite the dire warnings about it.

VED is on a local regional basis, but is being phased out. Brittany does not have it, but in some areas it is as much as £20 p.a.!!
However Control Technique IS required at all times, and takes the form of a sticker in the windscreen, along with insurance - no problem spotting those without!
Dont think they dont know what the forms are for - they are very strict - no registration document, and they are likely to impound the car, and leave you at the road side!
You have to understand how their municipal police, fire and post office is funded. ! They sell calendars, and have stalls at local events selling products to raise extra funds for themselves.
Gendarmes have no such perks, and are likely to resort to trying to extort money with "on-the-spot" fines for ficticious offences. Impounding cars is another way to increase their funds.
My parents live in Brittany, for the last ten years, and they dont have an extinguisher either! However their car has a French registration plate!
If your car was not purchased in France and you wish to register it there, you require a certificate of conformity - basically a certificate to say it conforms to all French laws! It will cost up to £600 to obtain, as the car has to be "tested" at a Garage. However, if you "know" a mechanic, you can get the certificate for a small fee - about £50-60 depending on whether he has any others to pay off in the scam!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Ernest,

My mother is 78, and her driving is not limited to pottering down to the shops. She drives to visit me - a journey which involves the M3, M4 and A329M motorways and a distance of about 50 miles.

I agree that it is highly useful to have a knowledge of car mechanics as a driver - just recently I heard a wop-wop-wop as I drove along. I had a nail in a tyre, but was able to change the wheel myself when I got home. I don't think an elderly lady of 78 could be expected to do this, however, and I feel strongly that driving with a nail in the tyre as I had is potentially far more hazardous than driving without a yellow reflective vest in the car, or driving with a blown tail light. As for blown lights, it happens so rarely that I'm surprised that there is legislation mandating the carriage of spares. I haven't had a blown light bulb for more than 25 years, but that puncture I had was the second in a few months - in the same tyre! So why not mandate that all drivers must be able to change a wheel, or carry a passenger who can do it for them?

There comes a point when all this "what if" legislation becomes a bit of a farce, and I believe that point has been passed in the EU.

The only items I always carried for emergencies were a set of jumper leads and a spare fanbelt - in the days when it was possible for a driver to change it himself. In modern cars the belt is so concealed as to be impossible to access.

You've been lucky like myself - but my last blown bulb was about 18 months ago.
However, I DO see large numbers of cars with only one headlight - TOTALLY unsafe in my eyes, and yesterday saw an AA driving school car (less than twelve months old) with only one brakelight working! It doesnt have to be changed on the side of the road, but at the earliest opportunity.

As to changing the tyre, that is a matter of personal feeling. Mine is I would'nt want anyone stuck on the Brenner Pass with a flat tyre, unable to change it until help arrived, especially if they were elderly!
If I had to change mione, I would be wearing my flourescent vest, and if the family were out of the car, I would ensure they were out of danger, warm, and dry, if not clearly seen!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Yes, but there again, many modern cars have sealed beam units which are much more expensive to replace. Can these units even be replaced by an ordinary motorist at the side of the road? I don't think I'd know how to do it, or how to make sure it was correctly aligned. All this is pointing to one thing - many if not most motorists are going to need garage help to deal with these matters. Requiring them to carry replacement parts and the tools to fit them won't solve the problem.

I agree it is shocking how many people drive around with blown headlights. I always notice it in the week after the clocks go back an hour in October, and suddenly that blown headlight that they've been meaning to replace all summer is suddenly needed for the drive home from work. I once counted 7 such vehicles when driving from Mitcham back to my home in Berks.

Some cars (eg. Toyota) have a warning light on the dash which lights up if you have any blown bulbs. I had two Toyotas in a period spanning nearlt 10 years, but I don't know how well the system worked because as I said, I haven't had a blown bulb for years and years.

Volvo's have the warning system - it works fine.
I have not encountered sealed beam units for years now - I think they were less versatile, and expensive.
Most bulb housings I have seen have been clip fit plastic covers, with a simple means to locate the bulb.
The Renault 19 had a cover over the assembly, with a wire clip which did'nt seem to want to clear the cover it held in place - making it impossible to remove.
However I found out eventually it unclipped the other way, then swung away with the cover attached - meaning you could'nt lose the cover in the dark!

Years ago, when I was little, I saw the result of a motorcyclist who passed a car thinking it was a motorcycle coming the other way. It was'nt - it was a car with only one headlamp. We used to have "Dont be a one eyed monster" TV Adverts, but not now - it's all anti-speeding!!
Nothing else seems to matter any more.
If you want a cheap day-glo jacket, Motorworld had an excellent one in a triangular case, for £3.99 - full jacket, not a stripe!!! Dont know if they have any left now.
I have day-glo arm bands with flashing LED's - £1.99 in ALDI a few months back - they might come up again, but only for a week.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

On the subject of headlights, I do carry those headlamp beam deflectors, but I don't fit them unless I anticipate night driving. The adhesive backing means that they can only be used once, whereas I might make several trips to France in a year and not do any night driving at all (local hops to places like Calais and Le Touquet). But the rules say you're supposed to fit them even if driving in daylight! And the reason? Use of headlights even by daytime "could cause dazzling". Failure to attach the beam deflectors, even in daylight conditions "could invalidate your insurance". Again, way over the top. On a recent trip to Amiens, I ran into heavy rain and used the headlights - not to see, but to be seen. But there's a headlight height adjustment on the dash, and I lowered the headlights as far as possible. I didn't have anyone flashing me, so this temporary solution was adequate. For extended night driving, I would have attached the beam deflectors.

Speaking of dazzle, the French have numerous bridge parapets with a section that is 45° from horizontal and with signs on them. Driving back last Thursday, there were numerous occasions when the sun caught the signs and dazzled me, creating an after image. I wonder if the French authorities are insured against the hazard they create.

spare bulbs are useless on my car too. pop up headlights which must have the fuse removed before attempting to change the bulbs. 4 screws to remove a cover, 4 more screws to remove the headlamp assembly etc etc etc.
on the up side, it has lights on each door. still needed a philips screwdriver to replace one. the L reg rover 214 i used to have was easy. no screws at all. thats how it should be

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Richie

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Just a little question raised by Gixxer’s post

Given we know the hard shoulder is one of the most dangerous place a motorist is ever likely to encounter why do police pull people over onto it.

Also please correct me if I am wrong as I have never had to do this so not 100% if it is ok

But I though if flashed to pull over on a fast duel carriageway or motorway you could slow down and let the police car follow you to the next exit and then pull over some where safe.

Given the number of accident I have seen on hard shoulders that would be my choice but is it legal? or even if it is legal is it just going to piss of the officers in the car?

I am new to this site but have enjoyed reading through the forums.

I was talking about the High Vis vest thread to my brother who is a Highways Technician, and spends half his standing in the road with a High Vis on.

He assures me that this type of clothing only serves to aid blind/partially sighted drivers in aiming for you.

He went on to confirm that these days he has taken to wearing an all-black ninja suit and just making sure that he gets out of the path of any approaching cars

I'm not sure that it's the official line his employer is adopting in their H&S documentation, but it is one take on the problem.