Safe Speed Forums

Well I was one of the lead bikes heading out from Membury. Where were the ruddy police when a French coach driver decided he didn't like the speed at which we were driving (56-60) and began tailgaiting a few feet from a BMW GS bike in front??! Not content with his inability to pass this motorist he then decide to try and move into my space in lane 2; without indication and without MY PERMISSION! He got the twin FIAMMS from me and thank the Lord I had the good sense to fit them as the bog standard BMW horns are crap!

Sally & I enjoyed meeting all of those we did and we apologise if we can't remember all your names, should you write or we meet again. We reflected upon the day and considering the notion of the event sparked into life a mere 10 days ago I think the turnout wasn't bad.

I think that if we, as a protest group, decide to do something similar it has to be huge! I think we are going to be regarded as a 'fringe' organisation
without the clout of the AA & RAC and so although our efforts were credible and newsworthy, future protests of a similar nature may be less so... We need to do something en masse but with real impact! We have set the ball rolling and by God we need to keep its momemtum to try and get this safety message across... I'm not a typical protestor, just an ordinary guy who drives and rides around Britians' roads some 12,000 miles a year and I see the degredation in driving standards through my own observations from a 20 year perspective.

In my ordinary experience I can tell you, quite catagorically, speed cameras are a menace that contribute nothing to road safety. Any object, however innocent, that causes a driver to divert their attention from the road at a crtical moment, deserves removal ASAP.

Anyway, where nect?

M6 for sure.

Reading the comments that weekdays are hard to get a good turnout.

and we need a buzier motorway to make the protest work I thought I would throw in some thoughts... the photographers were there but were struggling for that "front page- hit'em dead photo".

Friday night leaving london can be very busy
Sunday evening about 7pm is very busy (on routes towards London)

Infact news isn't news unless it affects London (just like it hasn't snowed unless it snows in London.)

Clash with a big sporting event or the opening of parliment after the election. (if we can get near enough?)

Next time we need to put a huge banner as near to the entrance of the services as possible directing people to the lorry park

We need to have a tailgunner vehicle with a huge banner
roof racks with posters (something for the cameras to photograph)

Arange a group photo shoot with something daft like a mock camera and an over size axe. (then put it on a flatbed truck and take it on the run. The press love this stuff.

I think these are excellent PR ideas. I'd certainly come along with tripods & cameras.

Is that your house???

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'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

Ours was one of the last cars to leave in the westbound convoy from Membury. It took over 15 minutes for everyone to get out of the lorry park and onto the motorway.

The problem was that, being a bank holiday Saturday, the service station was busy anyway, and other travellers - including a few HGVs - were constantly leaving onto the westbound carriageway and getting mixed in with our convoy. Some seemed to partly understand there was an organised protest going on, some seemed to not have a clue and were only interested in getting out into the traffic flow to continue their journey.

The only way I can see in future to keep all the protest vehicles together would be for the trafpol to hold back other travellers for a few minutes while the convoy assembles and all leaves in one line. No kind of criticism of the police yesterday: they were brilliant, and talking to three of them off the record, all were very supportive. Just that we need to think about the practical detals of traffic convoy management.



Yes, the crowds of (presumably) locals waving in support from the motorway bridges was a nice bonus.



Yep. Seconded. Good to meet everyone. Hope this public protest has started something which leads to positive changes.

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'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

One way of doing it is to tell people to drive faster than 56mph until they've caught up with the convoy. If those at the back drive at 70, for example, a 15-minute gap can be made up over a distance of less than five miles.

Cheers
Peter

Some pics from the day (many thanks Dave)

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Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

I have been for a while, when passing a roadside camera van, coming up to it at the speed limit, only to let my horn go at the right moment.
This surely makes the b******s jump inside their little den.
Why don't we ALL adopt this most annoying trait and give them a bit of our "revenge". This could go for any of them, on bridges as well!

Well done! Now maybe the scamera pratnerships will listen. I would like to see other protests in different parts of the country where there has been controversy over the installation of these modern-day highway robbers. What right do they have to lower speed limits to suit themselves and their scameras. Is there nothing in law that prevents them from doing so?

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Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.

The two lower images posted by "Orange" are interesting and raise a number of points, the first being:

At what speed were the veicles travelling when the images were taken?

Secondly, at what magnification were the images taken?

Thirdly, what isthe nominal focal length of the camera lens for the magnification setting?

Depending upon, but not limited to, the factors queried above, the seperation distances between most vehicles shown is less than safe; the "box van" in lane two, for example, and the distance between it and the preceeding motorcycles.

Whilst logged in here, and assuming that those involved may read this at sometime in the future,may I take the opportunity to question the driver of the lightish metallic blue Ford Focus, index # W4nn aaW, as to why he thought in OK to come within 3 car lengths of the vehicle in front and at a speed in excess of 50mph when exiting the M4 into Membury Services westbound at 07.45 on Thursday 28 April? Also, to the driver of the white Dennis coach operated by Taa Kaa Travel exiting, but still within, the 40mph speed restriction, at J18 eastbound at approx 15.45 on the same day - how close did you get to the Mondeo in lane 1 before you moved into lane 2 to overtake? 36 INCHES, 24 INCHES, CLOSER????????????????????

Indeed, and that I think proves why speed cameras will do no good on motorways, tailgating is more important by far.

I feel sorry for those bikers, there were a few instances of HGV's and coaches tailgating them really close (probably to show their annoyance since they're not allowed to use L3 to overtake).

Although the target speed was 56 mph, the protest actually moved at about 40 for most of its length.



Perhaps, but if we chose a motorway that was very busy and caused too much disruption, the public support would quickly be lost. The advantage of this stretch of M4 on a Saturday was that about half an hour after the protest ended, the traffic had returned to normal, so it didn't inconvenience too many people.

Besides which, on the London end of the M1 or M4 on a Sunday night, you'd be lucky to do 40 mph anyway, even without a protest.

Right at the back, I would estimate that all 3 lanes were not able to do more than 30mph for the first 10 minutes, such was the traffic congestion ahead. No way was it possible to travel faster, to 'catch up.'



On a normal Sunday night, you are lucky to be moving at all.

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'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

The best way to keep the pack together is to keep up with the one in front. There was a tendancy to slow down to alow those behind to catch up but this had a negative effect causing gaps to open up infront.

It would have been better if for the first 5 mins or so for people to make sure the gaps were plugged rather than concentrate on staying in the pack. This would bunch up the group.

It would be better if the bikes and cars were seperated even if the bikes took lane 1 and the cars lane 2. The bikes could ride in a stagered 2X2 formation like we do on bike runs.

Still....next time we will know...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Correct. Folks are all for things being changed in their long-term favour, but not at the expense of their short-term inconvenience.

Having spoken to a Biker Traf pol on the day the Membury -> Leigh journey was slightly faster then the Leigh -> membury which averaged about 20 mph - and was actually at a stop for around 1/2 mile if not a bit more.

I did see in my mirror some of the stupid actions by at least one coach - he was withn a few feet of one of the bikers, I also saw a caravan tower and 2 HGV's take to the outside lane (This I did not take issue with, they were clearly faster and is was for everybody's benefit - this is where discretion works IMO)

I agree with the comments about needing to be more photogenic, a picture of a long tailback of cars on a motorway is hardly front page stuff. You could just slap on a library pictureof the M4 at rush hour rather than bother to turn up.

A few trucks with displays, as well as posters and flags etc. I imagine that running a banner between two cars would be illegal and unsafe, which is a shame as it would make a good picture.

Need to be careful about getting too extravagent otherwise it will be like Fathers4Justice, can anyone remember what they actually stand for? I bet you more people remember the guy dressed as Batman than what they actually want.

Anyway, if we can get a few flatbeds, then perhaps you could make up some big models eg. a yellow robot in a policemans uniform stands looking ahead while behind a crowd of robbers (in stripey tops, mask, and large swag bag ala The Beano) sit around uninhibited, or perhaps you could get two cars on the back of a flatbed, one 2 inches off the back of the other one and a large banner reading "he's doing 65mph so he's a safe driver, honest"

As for direct action at the scamera partnership offices, you have to realise that most of the people who work there are young low paid civil service types who genuinely beleive the government spin despite dealing with hundreds of irate motorists every day, it's the management you want to target rather than the worker.

I like the idea of flat bed trucks with displays!

As for who to direct the protests at... I believe that it's the local councils who generally pull the Scamera Partnership strings.

Can anyone shed some more light on this?

The only problem with trgetting the scamerati is that to inconvenience them it would have to take place on a weekday which most people probably couldn't do.

It would make great press though.

Another possibility is to follow a moblie camera about. Keeping the traffic speeds down so they don't get any cash from it.

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Speed camera policy Kills

It does seam the case that county and city councils nned to co-opperate to set up a safty cam partnership.

Maybe hounding yout city or parish councilor will have some effect.

In Hampshire we have speed cameras in Southampton, Isle of White and Portsmouth, but none in the city of Winchester

Of course it could be that the rich folk in Winchester dont ever have accidents or that the police HQ is there... Mmmmm