Safe Speed Forums

Hear London is set to join in Speed Awware Scheme and offer course as alternative to points.

Rumour has it (and have not read the blurb yet - as it is still in design) that unlike other schemes - fine will have to be paid as well as course fee. But there will be no penalty points.

Course to be like Lancs - theory and a drive out with ADIs. Unlike the other schemes - they intend to bring speeding drivers (and remember course is only offered to 10% +2 or 3) face to face with "victims of speeding drivers."

Agree with basic principle of these courses - but they are still targetting the wrong driver. Just overs are not causing accidents.... the excessives are and these are the people who need these lessons - perhaps short ban and lesson before licence is restored.

All kinds of variations...

But to the forum - which drivers should we invite to these courses? Assuming we never bring in carrots for continuous learning?

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Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I can only talk for myself, but before I took the pledge, I’d usual pile on a bit of speed before I got out of town completely, and I wouldn’t slow down soon enough on the way into town. But I wasn’t much more ‘dangerous’ than I am now, really, so I’d say that it would be a waste of resources to spend this effort on people who make small transgressions at quiet times in relatively low risk areas. The best place to spend this is on people with (some mix of) many bad transgressions at busy times in relatively high risk areas.

How do you find those people? A one-off transgression sometimes means little. So you have to use a lot of cheapo monitoring and a little statistical trending to find the failing drivers – those with a bad mix of many bad transgressions at busy times in high risk zones. Those are the bums you should hunt down, and either ban them or train them. You'll never have enough coppers to do that, so let the cameras collect the records, and let the police decide what to do with the worst offenders.

It is the automatic punishment for relatively trivial transgressions that gets people's backs up. People want the real bums to improve, or ride the bus.

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I agree with the above statement, it is the same as most things in this world, bad driving causes bad accidents, not necesserally just speed, but bad driving is hard to catch or police. So as usual the people who just make a small error of speed get the points while banned drivers etc. Just carry on regardless. I dont have the answer to this ( i wish i did!) but the way motorists are treated now does nothing to endear the public to help the cause.

(In my best Henry Higgins accent)...

By Jove, I think he's got it!!

Unfortunately your statistical model for catching these sorts of drivers falls at hurdle one - the assumption that there's a 1 to 1 relationship between vehicle and driver....

Well done, r11co - you are getting up to speed! That is why ubiquitous RF links and biometric keys are on the technology agenda.

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Who's agenda....

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Speed camera policy Kills

Everybody’s agenda! A very large part of the crime in this country is facilitated by cars. Think about it, Gizmo – car theft, ram raiding, smuggling, illegal immigration, prostitution, get away cars, dangerous driving, ringers, drug running, gang masters etc. And that’s before you get to run of the mill stuff like insurance fraud, mot, road tax evasion, false plates, joy riders, driving in the bus lane (!), drink driving, gratuitous speeding, fly tipping (!), shop lifting and nicking, etc. etc. Basically, you name it, and a car’s involved somewhere! Control the cars and you control the crime!

Also, the road is in short supply, so we either have to pay for more of it, or get by with less of it. If we want to ration it, expect track and trace technology to apply the penalties.

That is the imperative behind the track and trace security technology. At present, the big push is in information systems, but we have had the first wave of the ID card attack and I would expect a push in the area of physical transport systems. I’d expect more of this tachograph malarkey, distance monitored tax and insurance, tolls and charging zones, databases, speed and traffic light cameras and detectors, biometrics and broadband spread spectrum internet RF data transfer, semi-automatic routing penalties etc.

Biometrics are important to driver’s themselves – they don’t want to carry keys around all the time. And once they are in the system, you have Big Brother, especially when combined with RFID tags, that are being fitted to all the physical things you can buy!

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Have you never read 1984 then?

As every single crime involves a person, how about electronic implants being compulsory for everybody, such that nobody can do anything at any time without the government/police knowing about it.
Just think - that should eliminate all crime, and everybody will be happy.

You'll find me on the first spaceship away from this planet. Destination? Who cares.

Cheers
Peter

I know - I used to think Orwell was an old crank, but not now, Pete317, not after everything that I've seen.

A new system is almost always introduced for advantages, but they often seem to carry a heavy payload of unintended side effects! For instance, cars seemed to have a heavy advantage over rail, until it became apparent that carbon might halt the gulf stream conveyor, our cities would be congested out of recognition, danger to children, no parking, noise and a lot of the population would get asthma! And I’m not being harsh just on cars here – many new systems carry a payload of unintended side effects at every level, and it’s a bastard to sense them in advance. The whole site is about (what you think is) an unintended side effect of cameras.

I think a lot more systems engineering effort has to be devoted to heading off side effects before they get designed in. With cameras, we could use historical trending and better siting to flush out the gratuitous speeders without clobbering up Joe Blow too much.

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Not mine....maybe I am not everybody.

I am just an ordinary joe.

Just remember that technology is an arms race. The more sophisticated the technology the more subtle the countermeasure.

Cloning an RF tag is easy. The technology is out there now. Woud just need to sit there in a car park with a scanner harvesting codes. Then you could create a duplicate.

I work in a technology lead industry (electronics manufacture) We make some of the most sophisticated car anti-theft systems in the world. But cars still get stolen. It just takes the crooks longer to catch up. I have also been involved in RF tag development. Every system can be cracked. The more complex the system the easier it is to trip it up. It is the reliance in this technology that is the worry. The only practical application for RF tagging is fleet management. Useless for anything else.

The down side to all this data and tracking systems is that I don't trust ANYONE with it, especialy the government.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Is all this data management machinery (e.g. the internet, electronic security and surveillance, databases and automation etc.) just a passing fad which will go away after a bit, then?

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It depends....A good friend of mine is a softwere developer for a credit card company in the USA. He always pays cash for any purchases he makes. Read into that what you will. Have you ever tried to sort out an illegal transaction on your credit card....I have

I think that that technology in the public sector has failed do deliver security. In fact it has given crooks new ways to screw you. The internet is one of the fastest growin sectors for criminal activity and the hardes to police.

Maybe you are happy with that. In which case I can see why you think the way you do.

But all I see is more ways for criminals to prosper and greater risk of identity theft that is difficult for you to defend against or correct.

It has all gone mad. We "trust" technology way too much. It does not deserve it.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Yet I use my card. That is the case for almost everyone - the system works more than it fails.



Trade transfers remorselessly to e-bay and the network, in the same way that canal boats gave way to trains, then trucks. The Internet does facilitate crime, like the postal network, the transport network or any other system of interaction.



I’m commenting on the state of things. Systems which record their data on paper are the same as systems which record their data on the surface of a disk, but updates happen in a centralised way, faster, more reliably and the data takes up less space. If reliability is required, it must be in the design, I expect.

I hope things will be done - for example, id cloning can be prevented using spatial monitoring (a thing cannot be at two locations at the same time). Serial numbers can contain redundancy and digitally signed summaries, making it impossible to generate new ones. Biometrics can reduce or eliminate false positives. Etc. etc.



Systems are systematic, and lack of systematisation does not imply trust to me either.

Fair play, you are right, though, the world is madly systematising itself, and humans have become the raw materials on which systems operate. Once, we looked in at the model from outside, but we’re all part of the model now. Speed cameras are just the thin end of the wedge. Scary stuff, Gizmo. No wonder people hate them.

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