Safe Speed Forums

I cannot understand why these magazines and TV programmes glorify the most powerful and most sexually attractive cars and bikes. It seems to me that the punters who narrate the articles and clips push the fastest and greatly accelerated cars and bikes too when they might appeal to the blokish types that read and watch these articles and prog's.

They are always pointing out the top speed of these fashionable icons and comparing the 0 to 60 rate and the go-faster stripes on the body-lines.....

WAIT A MINUTE....Very few of these beautiful and sexy monsters are EVER going to be able to do ANYTHING-LIKE the speeds and accelleration rates that they are advertised and sold under so what's the attraction I wonder ?

I am sure that most of these programmes and magazines are targetted at the rich boy-racers who need a penis-extension and not reallly a mode of transport so why are these magazines and TV programmes so greatly favoured by the average motoring mutt ?

Is it for the fantasy found inside their pages and on the screens, or do any of us think that many of us might want to carry this fantasy out onto the open roads of congested little Britain ?

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

Why does anyone in the UK ever buy a car that'll do more than 70mph?

Why do people buy convertibles, they are not very practical?

Why do people eat out at restaurants when they could survive perfectly well on what they could cook cheaply at home?

Why do people spend lots of money on clothes when they could just cover themselves with binbags?

etc etc etc

YEH....that's what I said...."FANTASY"

Mind you, in this particular case I think that "fantasy" should be left on the magazine shelves and in the TV screens and NOT carried out onto the roads.

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

Sexually attractive???? Erm, nice to look at maybe, but I think I'd rather stick with women, thanks all the same.

In fairness though, motoring magazines, both TV and press, often cover 'ordinary' cars that most of us are going to buy. Okay, that might be because they would run out of stuff to write about pretty soon if they just stuck to Ferraris and other exotica, but whatever the reason it's not all 155mph+ supercars. On other occasions I've seen coverage devoted to NCAP ratings and other safety issues, fuel economy, getting the best deals on new and used cars, which optional extras are worth having and which are worthless, and so on. BTW can't speak for bike mags, not being a biker I've never read one. Most, if not all the car mags and programmes are sometimes guilty of focusing too much on top speed, and some of them do so far more than others.

0-60 times are another matter. That particular figure has evolved into a standard and is applicable to all cars, and if you've stopped for traffic lights on an NSL road you certainly can do the advertised acceleration rate. That's not to say you should, as it isn't exactly car-friendly or sensible driving, but I reckon I probably get the opportunity to do that a couple of times a day. We could debate how useful 0-60 (or 62) times are in reality, but the fact is they're here to stay simply because car buyers are aware of them. You could also look at it from a slightly different angle - I may not particularly need or want a car that does 0-60 in 5 seconds, but I might want to avoid an underpowered slug of a car that stuggles to do it in 15. So that information is relevant in helping me to find my not-too-fast-not-too-slow happy medium of 10 or 11.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

With bike mags you 'get exactly what it says on the tin'. Buying a copy of Fast Bikes or Performance Bike is not very likely to give you a selection of reviews on learner machines or great bikes for the daily commute (plenty of T&A though ). On the other hand, mags like Bike and Ride are more aimed at the real world and are useful in indicating the likely feel of the bikes reviewed.

I'm currently thinking about changing my bike and things like levels of performance are important, especially as riding is recreational, not just functional. I am perfectly capable of riding my 150mph, 0-60 in 3.5 secs bike, totally sensibly, which probably explains why I am able to sit here typing this and not pushing up the daisies. Ultimately I am responsible for controlling the vehicle I am driving/riding and I think that that is far more important than whether or not some journalist decides to show the bike being ridden on a race track at high speed.

SO....It seems to me to be the case that the powerful car or the powerful bike is bought so that one can beat the other punter from the traffic lights and that's that !

As these fast cars and bikes - ( I have driven both BTW ) - cannot be driven at anything NEAR their potential top speed it is only their accelleration and torque that makes them practically worth buying.

I do understand what Gatosbait says when he talks about a grossly underpowered car or bike and I do admit that few real drivers would be happy with a car or bike that would not allow them to overtake incisively or timeously. That, is a given !

How many people buy Reliant Robins these days, ( Don't say that they are not available now... as they still are ).

OK... that accepted and the fact that a powerful car or bike can and does beat the sh1t out of the rest at the traffic lights and that it can overtake in the wink of an eye....that is where it ends...isn't it ?

OR...and I am sorry that I took so long to get to the point here....is it the fact that on an open motorway in Britain the petrolheads and the speeders can indulge themselves in their favourite vice with these overpowered machines to their hearts content ?

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

Granted, but this information is useful, because:

1) A car that can cruise comfortably and effortlessly at motorway speeds for hours on end, and can do so reliably for years, more often than not has a very high top speed. So what if you only ever use about half of it?

2) The quicker a car can accelerate from 0-60, the quicker it can accelerate past the car or lorry you're overtaking, therefore the safer your overtaking is.

3) A powerful car more often than not also has superior braking and roadholding - therefore it's safer.

Papaumau, how you can say you are not deliberately inciting argument (which I think we agreed was the definition of a 'troll' is beyond me.) If you genuinely believe what you are saying, then you are extremely naive

D'abord, cars that accelerate well - by their very nature - will have a high top speed. If we were all restricted to cars that can do 70mph, overtaking would become an extremely dangerous manouvre, because they'd have no acceleration whatsoever.

Secondly, you seem to be implying that it is never safe to exceed the posted limit. If you have read the web site you will have seen plenty of irrefutable evidence suggesting otherwise. OK, so there aren't many situations where you're safe to do 150mph, but it's fair to say that there are times when 70mph need not be the fastest you can go.



Where their 'favourite vice' is driving at a safe speed? OK yes there are people out there who drive too fast, but not everyone who exceeds the speed limit is one of them. 'Overpowered'? This in the same breath as you have said you appreciate that the full extent of their acceleration can be used at traffic lights and so on.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

A boss I had many years ago had one of these huge american "gas guzzlers" estate station wagon, 5.3 litre engine, capable of 130+.
At 70mph, he averaged 30mpg, it would cruise at 80mph effortlessly on the autobahns, and he and his family would arrive at their destination relaxed and fresh.
He was a Doctor, so was a careful driver.
The car engine was hardly worked and was as good as new, wear and tear wise, just because you have a car with a powerful engine doen't mean you have to use it to it's full potential.
You can use it to help you stay relaxed and fresh.
I drive a myriad of trucks for a living, they can't be used to their full speed potential, but you can tell the difference in me by the truck I have been driving.
A big powerful truck, less gear changes, relaxed and fresh.
A small less powerful truck, more gear changes, have to think ahead more, can't climb hills as easily, tense and tired at the end of the day.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Serious question for you, Papaumau...

What spec is the PC/laptop you use?

This thread should have been killed stone dead with Mrs Miggins's pertinent if tongue-in-cheek post.

Let's hope it dies with this one.

Sorry r11co.... but it would be very bad mannered of me to let this thread die after I have been asked a question !



My PC is the fastest thing that you can get that will sit still on a workstation....SO WHAT ?

I still have to access the internet via dialup as I cannot get the vroom-vroom broadband in the country !

Even if I had the most powerful and the fastest PC on the planet I would not be able to take it out onto the road and break every speed limit that I didn't agree with on it would I ?

The analogy- if that is what you are getting at - is spurious !

To Dratsabasti......( like the nick BTW ) !

I cannot argue with your point that a truck, ( especially one that is designed to carry heavy loads ), should be as powerful as possible so that all of the other conditions you mentioned can be attained with as little effort as possible. I would also agree that a professional driver - knocking in many thousands of miles per year - would be more comfortable and less tired driving a SUITABLY powerful car as well !

That aside I see NO REASON for a speedfreak getting his or her hands on a superpowered car just so that they can pose as they put on their black sunglasses, grab the steering wheel with one hand and cruise past everything on the road at 80 plus plus plus.... MPH.

Neither do I see any reason for the same speedfreak giving me a leer as he burns rubber in order to beat me away from the traffic lights.

I find it ludicrous that the speeders, or more accurately, the "safespeeders" here suggest to me that they want to drive such an animal just so that they can be "SAFE" and comfortable on the road ???

Pull the other one !

OH YES...and BTW: Just because someone is a doctor does not mean that they are a safe or "good" driver.

You lot might see me as a troll and if you do, well, that's OK too, but all I come here to do is to waken you all out of this comfortable lethargy you have ensconsed yourself in just because YOU seem to think that YOU know better than the authorities as far as speeding is concerned.

Surely you can stand ONE dissenting voice in this haven for speedsters, OR am I upsetting the cosy form-a-circle-the-guy-at-back-is-not-getting-any dance-club ?

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

Papaumau, I'm getting dizzy. You began this thread with criticism of the motoring press hyping up fast cars (with a certain amount of justification btw, though not always). Your second post went off on a tangent about drivers of fast cars again.
So remind me, what exactly are we talking about here? Over enthusiatic hacks or over enthusiastic drivers?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Dammit Man! You are intruding on my golf plans! (And I have to have extra security now as there is a WildCat-Burglar on the prowl in this household! )

You are always less tired in comfy car no matter how many miles you drive! Besides as has been pointed out already - all safety features are that much safer




Good drivers take care of their motors. Burning rubber is pointless and makes for needless running costs!

Black sunglasses? One-handed steer? Have more respect for my Jag and Stag than to do that! Besides - black sunglasses - you been watching that re-run of "Easy Rider" again! Your fave video- perhaps? Mine is the one with Steve McQueen and that car chase!

You do like your stereotypes though!



True! Would not even get into a car with some of my colleagues!

Like I say - drive applying COAST all the time! Have lots of BiBs as relatives too - not recommended to drive like idiot when they are in passenger seat!

Why do I own Jag? Nice drive, safe, smooth, responsive when I need it, drive in Germany a lot, large enough to cart the kittens around in comfort.
We also have one of those people carrier efforts - but we do not feel as comfortable in it!

Why do I keep the Stag? Nice classic which appreciates in value now. Sentimental reasons - pulled and scored with the WildCat in it Also very pleasant to drive on sunny days like today.

Moggie Thousand? Nice sturdy old car - which again appreciates in value and gives me interesting drive. Besides - so finished off with all that polished dash and leather.

The others in the family's massive collection - again memorable drives.




Troll? Different point of view? Have no serious hang ups about that mate!

Know we had slight altercation about choice of some words - which meant I had to put this site temporarily out of bounds in my younger kitten corner for personal reasons which you could not possibly have known about!

Know better than the authorities?

Sadly, the authorities setting speed limits, altering speed limits without consulting with the locals, enforcing speed limits which catch out those who blip just over a limit for short distance, deliberately setting out to entrap normal law-abiding people who just stray over speed limit, such as practice in Wales, Lancs, and others - including Cumbria, where they hide talivan in car park or wherevever and deliberately target drivers accelerating in those yards when they see the increased speed limit lollipop, or M4 in Wales where they misplaced the scam and fined thousands of drivers driving legitimately at 70mph - who never questioned the fine and coughed up meekly. They did not have the decency to track down those drivers, refund the fine and rescind the points. They only did so when those drivers discovered it by logging onto sites such as these! And even then - it was begrudging and letters from the Prats were alledgedly condescending and arrogant in tone!

That is what we are really lathered up about!

Because we know the speed camera has very little to do with improving driving standards, road safety or anything sensible like that.

It has, alas, more to do with raising revenue and reducing driver numbers.

Except it appears to target the law-abiders as the real criminals are too "fly" to get nicked! (And we have less trafpols doing this anyway!)

Now - am off to play golf!

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The Mad One who will be taking all the keys to his den with him to prevent being raided by his Wild wife in his absence!

The computer / car analogy is not invalid at all. Computers, certainly at the upper end of the market, are marketed on performance, much like cars. People will pay extra for a super fast PC despite the fact they will never use it to full potential. Exactly the same happens with cars. A fast PC obviously doesn't break a speed limit, but it is more than capable of being used to commit copyright theft - ever downloaded an mp3 or some software from the internet? Ever copied a CD for a friend? Guess what, you're breaking the law...

Something else I'd like to draw to your attention - given that you obviously feel road safety is very important, why do you own a car which only received one EuroNCAP star?

"The PT Cruiser's weight height and high-set seating should help it perform well in a severe crash. But results from Euro NCAP’s frontal impact test showed that the driver risked chest, and upper and lower leg injuries. By contrast, the car did well in the side impact, helped by the side airbag mounted in the seat. But the imbalance between the front and side test results is a concern to Euro NCAP. What’s more, the child restraints did not protect the 18-month-old, exposing him to the risk of neck injuries in the frontal test. His head was not protected in the side impact, either. Finally there was little evidence of measures to protect pedestrians".

http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=car_138_2002

Interesting to note that the MG TF, which you'd doubtless label a sportscar marketed on performance, received four stars plus a very good pedestrian safety score.

http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=car_149_2003

May I ask what selling point drew you to the PT Cruiser?

Going off at a bit of a tangent here, but did anyone watch Top Gear tonight? They showed the new McLaren supercar, and demonstrated it stopping from 120 mph in 200-and-something feet - less than the distance the highway code says it should take to stop from 60 mph.

I want one (Maybe in 2050...)

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

A rather graphic illustration of one of the reasons for buying a performance car was shown on Top Gear tonight.

They were testing the new Mercedes SLR, and apart from the usual
petrolhead powerslides etc they also demonstrated its awesome braking capability. They marked out the braking distance shown in the Highway code for 60mph, and the SLR, with its massive tyres, ceramic brakes, brake assist and ABS all kicking in comfortably braked to a stop with several feet to spare. You'd sort of expect this, but the twist in the tail was that it did this from 120mph, not 60mph!

A rather extreme example, but it illustrates something that has been a constant positive safety factor almost as long as we've been motoring. In short, when people drive to their own limits, improvements in performance simply translate into bigger safety margins. In response to a given hazard, the performance car can stop quicker, or accelerate quicker, or swerve faster, and usually do so with a lower risk of loss of control.

As I once heard it put - if you should find yourself accidentally stepping into the path of a passing car, better hope that it's a Ferrari!

Sorry Mike - never noticed your post!

Great minds...

The Old Troll really has you guys going.

Take a look at the value its brought (i.e. review its posts).

Great distraction!

Whereas you, igd, have evidently contributed a lot to the discussion... 'Jeez, lighten up', it's a motoring forum and I don't see the harm in discussing motoring issues.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..