Safe Speed Forums

OK....Gatsobait...I will try to explain after you said:



If you are getting dizzy have a wee sit down and calm yourself !

Right...here goes:

Yes, I began the thread with criticism of the motoring media as I felt that they DO feed the needs of the petrol-heads of this country.

Once that point was made I went back to my usual tack of having a go at speedsters and power-junkies on the roads.

While I am now well aware of all of the rationalisation that goes on here - on this site - that justifies speeding and justifies ignoring the set speed limits, I felt that I maybe should try to examine the psychological need for speed that seems prevalent on this forum.

It seems to me that if the drivers that subscribe to this "speedsafe" slogan here are constantly searching for reason to break the law they must have some mental or genetic flaw in their makeup that drives them to go ever faster and faster and to search hard to find excuses for doing so.

I suppose - like in any other religious sect - the sect of the speedsters is hard to pull away from once committed to and once committed to it is natural to try hard to find reasons for this committment.

If the hard-line speedsters here had just given me the point that SPEED is a basic and essential part of the accident triangle then I would probably just have buggered-off and left you all in peace with your go-faster stripes.

As you did not even give me that courtesy I decided to stay a while and just see how deeply you would entrench yourselves in order to support the "Speed does not kill" mantra.

I have not been disappointed !

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

Hornet...you said - after a long pre-amble:



Well.......It was not based around all of that very interesting EuroNCAP stuff I can tell you !

Probably, if I was totally truthful here I would say that I picked it because I am a ZEE ZEE-TOP fan !

Maybe too, that I was offered a two and a half grand discount from the RRP at the time of purchase.

It is a fact that when I purchased that terrific car I was more interested in the freely-added chrome-pack that was on the only black 2.2 diesel Limited PT cruiser in Scotland at the time.

The fact that it takes around 11seconds to get to 62 MPH did not bother me, and it's from-standing-still-to-25MPH time was quite fast enough for me, ( NOT being a petrol-head you understand ).

It will cruise - hence it's name - at 70MPH in fifth all day if I ask it to and that too is fast enough for me on a motorway.

Oh yes and BTW....( I like doing that )....I don't have even ONE point on my licence ! Can YOU or the rest of the "speedsafe" mob here say that ?

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

Yup. Full clean licence after 21 years, no convictions EVER! Can't say that I stick strictly to the limits, but I pay due care and attention at all times, and this helps me spot the plods, Gatsos, Truvelos, SPECS and all.

Cjb Mate....

You have been one VERY lucky cuss as well as a 20/20-sighted one with your specs on !

You know - of course - that you have now tempted providence far too much to stay clear of points !

If you notice white-knuckle syndrome when you are out in the car the next time....just relax...and stay within the speed limits; it's is BY FAR the most relaxing way to drive between points A & B without getting a stroke due to stress.

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

Luck has b*gger-all to do with it. Like a good boy, I keep my eyes open for hazards both near and far, and react appropriately, often by slowing down. As a result I preserve life, limb and my clean licence

So are we to assume that being a 'petrol head' - a term commonly used to refer to motor car enthusiasists - is an inherently bad thing? Tell me, do you have no hobbies, no areas that particularly interest you? What's so wrong about being interested in a certain machine, and particular in well-engineered examples of it?



I'd hardly call people who exceed the speed limit from time-to-time a 'religious sect'. I can't remember the exact proportion, but I seem to recall that over 90% of drivers on the road have exceeded posted limits at some point.



I doubt 'hard-line speedsters' is an accurate term to reflect the people who post here. And the majority of people did agree with your point that 'speed kills', provided it was modified to 'impact speed kills'. Although this was what you were trying to say in the first place, you refused to accept it when people agreed with you!



Yes, I have a 'clean' licence here. As do many others on this forum.



Surely one has to remain alert for hazards - be they speed cameras or whatever else - even when sticking to a posted limit? You certainly need to be prepared for other drivers reacting upredictably to speed cameras.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Hmmm! Swayed by celeb-worship?

Let you off - not bad rifts! and licks!

My choice of motor? Chose nice practical family Volvo S60, and my wife drives Audi A4. Run "middle-aged" Astra for the kids.

Do indulge in the classic collection with the rest of the family - I am the proud owner of a Ford Poplar.




I like to know the car I am driving will respond when I need it to! I also need to know that its brakes etc will give same response!

Keeping rigidly to and below speedlimit?

You would be attracting my attention all the more mate!

Two types alert me - very slow and overly cautious ones and very, very fast ones!

Why is 70mph too fast for you? Have you not got sufficient COAST skills?

You need some extra training so that you will feel more comfortable at 70mph cruise!



You are making assumptions here.

Can tell you that my licence is squeaky clean, and know for fact rest of the family are clean and intend to stay so!

He said '70mph is fast enough for me', not '70mph is too fast for me'!

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Fair enough. And FWI I would agree that the articles about which cars are the best for doing donuts are not advancing road safety. That said, given your post about car depreciation and your own website about how much we get ripped off in this country I am a bit surprised that you seem unwilling to give credit where it's due. Plenty of articles have been written about motoring costs, though I admit you do sometimes have to look beyond the jounalistic tyre smoke to find them.

So I see. Interesting though. I've never seen anyone on any board hijack their own thread before. Still, if you're going to repeat yourself then so will I - prove your case, don't just repeat your position. In fact you don't even have to do that, just prove that the SafeSpeed argument is flawed. With the best will in the world I can't see how banging on about reducing accident severity trumps a call to prevent accidents from occuring in the first place.

If that's how it seems to you then I feel that you have misunderstood. Few, if any, wish to see an end to speed limits. Most, if not all, are happy to comply with a limit where it is sensible to do so, and to drive a damn sight slower than the limit where conditions dictate - a key point of safe driving that is insufficiently promoted these days. The issue is that draconian enforcement of limits is inherently limited from a road safety perspective (although it presents many opportunities for revenue raising), and has failed to improve our roads over the last decade. BTW "mental or genetic flaws"? Lame, Papaumau, very very lame. Evidence will change my mind, not cheap shots like that.

Firstly labelling us all as speedsters is false, and therefore irrelevant. This isn't about being allowed to drive faster - this is about reducing the number of car crashes in the UK. Why do you oppose this?
Secondly... religious sect. LMAO. You're the one with inflexible beliefs and no hard evidence to support them, but oodles and oodles of faith that they're correct. You're the one who keeps regurgitating the gospel according to DfT. You're the full time paid up member of the cult of "Speed Kills" - perhaps you'd like to share the responsibility for the UKs failure to improve accident figures over the last decade or so.

Er, thought we did. How come you're still here then?
Still waiting for you to return the courtesy and admit that reducing the numbers of accidents would have a far more beneficial effect than merely reducing their severity. Your position seems to be that you're quite happy for car crashes to continue at the same rate as long as more of them are survivable. Tell that to someone who's lost a limb or has been put in a wheelchair due to some incompetent berk not paying attention to the road.
I have. I thought you could produce a better argument than this.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

A lot of the safety features we enjoy emanated from manufacture of racing cars.

Keeping oneself informed of the latest technology in motor car design and features is no bad thing - so long as common sense prevails on the public highways!

And of course - you do appreciate a good design!



Most drivers are not necessarily breaking the speed limit by huge margin - too many are receiving points for minor transgressions which, in days of proper trafpol, would have received my lecture and a caution - but not necessarily the penalty points and fine. The authorities have now cottoned on that lots of people are losing jobs on loss of licence for series of 4 minor offences. This is why they are now considering shake-up of the points system - which again attracts negative opinion as there is now too much distrust as to motives.

Majority here are not calling for scrapping of speedlimits, nor for right to drive at OTT speeds. Simply questioning whether or not they are being treated fair and square by the authorities.

Of course - there is a minority of drivers who do indeed get a buzz from OTT speeding - but with less trafpols around - difficult to get them off the road. But perhaps way of life itself has spawned this need to get from A to B as quickly as possible - people have got used to fast food, turbo charged microwave cookers, speedy computers providing information at click of a mouse, etc, etc. Even on holiday - there seems to be some race to "do the sights!", and the Swiss half of this family even remarked that Brit tourists seem to be in some kind of competition as to who can see the most in the least time! Perhaps this attitude is entering the pysche of the average numpty behind the wheel of his car?

I have torn people to shreds in past over this attitude as well. Remember ticking off a young yob who tried to tell me that the 70mph limit meant he could do 80mph and then went on to tell me that he exceeded limit by 10mph whatever road. He got my lecture in the the acid tone and an NIP! Did try to get behind his logic - and got "It made his journey take longer and was boring!" I did recommend to him benefits of remedial training at the time - but have no idea whether or not I go throuhg to him - can only hope I did!

By the way - was only winding you over that 70mph comment in that last post!



Committed speeder? Me? The Mad Doc and the lovely WildCat?

We have always, always promoted the use of COAST, road safety training for all.

I have to speed at times when working - and I exercise due care and expertise at all times. The rest of my family? They get their speed fix as such from track days and various trips back to Switzerland via Germany. They, like myself, apply COAST at all times wherever they are, and always drive to the road conditions. Like the Mad Doc said - too many BiBs in this family anyway!

However, there is a danger in focusing upon just one aspect of road safety without addressing the bigger picture at the same time!

Good point!

Methinks chap likes being contrary. He agreed to point about COAST - think he did not get it until I spelled it out to him on other thread! I did not dot the "i"s and cross th "t"s in the COAST definitions - merely gave the basics. But that is for the "Road Safety Forum" anyway! (And have made same enquiries as the Mad Doc - Lancs Prats do indeed teach COAST in their Speed Course! Wot a Surprise

This is the trouble - we do not get messages as to how to improve driver skills and all road user skills - just one "Speed Kills" message. As posted previously - the whole picture needs addressing!




Again - good points! It is about quality of life. If my cousin (the one in the dodgy artic. incident) had survived - judging from the injuries - his quality of life would have been purgatory for him and his family. In some ways - a blessing as this man could have existed in vegetated state for years.

But again - we are back to addressing actual standard of driving as well as speed.

We need the trafpols, the training, the assessments and coherent advertising campaigns on prime time TV if we are to change dangerous attitudes and practices on the road.


In the meantime I can only encourage you all to think COAST when driving - and you will probably find that by doing so - you are more hazard aware, less heavy footed and more conscious of the speed limit of the road you are driving on!

Papamau

I think you owe us an apology !!

'It seems to me that if the drivers that subscribe to this "speedsafe" slogan here are constantly searching for reason to break the law they must have some mental or genetic flaw in their makeup that drives them to go ever faster and faster and to search hard to find excuses for doing so.'

I certainly do not have a mental flaw, and find it personally offensive that you are suggesting it !!

As you might remember from a previous post, I have experience of RTA's on a personal level, I also have professional experience of them, they are not pleasant in any way, shape or form. Our current road 'safety' strategy is not working. This blind faith in speed cameras is NOT a panacea for all ills, but it is by the work of Paul and others (please note the number of serving traffic police posting on these forums and others) that we are likely to get a change to a safety strategy that works.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

No points on my licence.

Me neither. One single speeding conviction in my entire driving career (in January 1981).

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

No points and totally accident free (fault or otherwise) in 13 years of driving. Don't suppose that fits into the neat little stereotype Papaumau has constructed, but hey, that's his problem, not mine.

I see, so vehicle safety isn't important to you, but image is. How strange.

None here either