Safe Speed Forums

On the M4 last Friday evening, (around Swindon area?) A 50mph limit was being flashed by those small black roadside advisory signs. Don't really know why although the sun was very bright and low. I came to some roadworks where the limit was 40mph but the roadside signs were still flashing 50mph. I assumed the lower limit was in force but many others didn't. Then everyone saw the GATSO (not easily visible behind some large signs, below the brow of a hill). The panic braking that followed was ludicrous and very dangerous. Some were flashed by the camera, several rear-end collisions were only just averted. The corresponding knock on effect pile up could have been huge.

Has anyone else witnessed this on this stretch of motorway recently?

Why were the speed limits conflicting?

Why was the speed camera not more clearly visible?

Which was the correct limit from a legal point of view?

I think the matrix signs were due to an earlier accident westbound between J16 & J17. When I returned back to swindon Eastbound, they were on my side of the carriageway (which was pretty empty), so of course everyone ignored them.

Thats why the matrix signs have no credence - they are never on at the correct time or place to reflect the hazards. They are advisory only as far as I am aware, I think it's only enforceable if physical signs are used (eg roadworks), or the overhead variable speed limits AKA M25

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as i understand it the advisory signs are just that and advisory maximum speed and whos only legal implication would be toward dangerous driving.

if it has a red ring round then its a legal speed limit.

can't say i've ever strayed into an area where an advisory limit was higher than the signed speed limit... but i'd apply the same logic:
- the speed limit is what i'm legally bound to
- the advisory is just providing some further information to be considered in the driving process.

(in this case the further information would be 'thats a bit silly')

And the red-ringed speed limit sign is the mandatory size for such signs otherwise that's advisory too.

If it is like a lollipop - it's manadatory and rest are adviseable - which means you may be in bother if you have accident and are above this advisory speed as far as your claim and liability are concerned.





Vaguely recall IG or Ian saying the advisory and no apparent reaon had something to do with a clear up operation - which could be just claring debris.

Wish I knew why I see warnings for for after the foggy bit though... Or in bright sunshine

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Even though 40mph was the legal limit, would those who have been flashed not have some cause for appeal on the grounds that the speed limit was unclear? Ok I know that people should have known that the limit in a red ring was mandatory and the one on the matrix sign is only advisory, but as the 2 limits are incongruent then surely it could be classed as misleading? It would be like having an advisory speed round a bend higher then the speed of the road. The authorities can't have it both ways - either we should abide by these advisorary signs or we should ignore them. They can't just change their minds when it suits them.

No, you must be mistaken. You see, there are speed cameras in operation between J17 and 16 so there can't possibly have been an accident there -- you must have been imagining things again.

Yeah, but the accidents happen at 70mph and are therefore safe as they are legal

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

i always obey the roadworks speed limits but i always ignore the matrix signs unless they are telling me about a queue that may or may not be in front of me.
i always get cars flying past regardless of my speed or the speed limit though

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Those matrix signs are usually on just to check all the bulbs are working, it's like the people operating them think, hmm what shall we write today?

They should be replaced with the operators of said signs holding similar sized peices of card board with the information hand written on them. That way the would be keener to disappear after what ever they were warning us about had gone.

I have wondered for some time just who controls these things, the criteria for selecting a particular speed, when they are switched on and off and who checks if the message is still necessary.

When I see these things switched on and saying 50 instinct is to lift off until I can access the situation as I expect to see something amiss around the next bend or over the brow of a hill. Often there is noting no low sun, debris on the road, Fog etc.so by slowing down, even by 5 - 10 mph I am at more risk due to some idoit driving up my exhaust pipe.

matrix signs are illuminated

That because they are in virtaully all cases they are not displaying up-to-date relevant information. Even the overhead text ones are being abused when displaying *Queue Ahead* as so often there isn't. Used effectively they would be useful, but whoever is operating them needs to do a better job of keeping them upto date.

They are at their best when displaying accident far in advance, sometimes not even on that road. Done correctly this fans out the traffic who split off a different points depending on their destination and help ease the traffic congestion.

was it Esops Fables where the boy cried wolf too often?

I like the Queue Ahead sign on the approach to the toll road on M6. What it should say is "please use our nice new road so we can have a few more quid off you"

My favourite is when you're crawling along in dense fog and you have to really strain your eyes to see the important message on the overhead signs... "Fog".

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Just glancing through the posts just now when I sore this post, I was travelling down the M4 yesterday, I stopped in the services to water the snake
upon coming out of the services I could see the centre black sign reading 50MPH, I hit 50, then to my horror I noticed in the distance a 40MPH sign

thank god those greedy lot in the vans weren't at the chippenham junction or I would be 3 points and £60 worse off now

I agree these signs are a pain in the arse, never displaying anything relevant to whats going on
--
Martin

Or even just more informative. "Stationary traffic in 800 yards - caution" would do a much better job of getting me to slow down than "Queue ahead".

"Accident in 2 miles" instead of "Queue ahead".

"Congestion queue in 1000 yards" instead of "Queue ahead".

Yes, it is like calling wolf. I don't look at them any more if they aren't interesting.

And the side-signs saying "50" ... why? I have driven past these cautiously only to see nothing the other side SO many times! Would serve better as a count-down. 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... stationary traffic!

It's not really practical to do that though, since the queue is constantly growing in length so the guy in the control room would have to somehow know at exactly what rate the queue was growing.

However, where the automatic MIDAS system is installed (such as on the M1 Southbound J11-9) it does actually work very well -- you get a "Queue Ahead 60" followed by "Queue Caution 40" and then 9 times out of 10 there is actually a queue. If the government would spend the money to install that everywhere, confidence in the signs would improve immensely.