Safe Speed Forums

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... xhome.html

The number of Derbyshire police cars caught speeding: 59; The number of Derbyshire police officers prosecuted: 0
By Nick Britten
(Filed: 27/05/2005)

Fifty-nine police cars were caught speeding on one county's roads last year - but not a single driver was prosecuted.



None of the marked cars captured by speed cameras in Derbyshire was known to have been using blue emergency lights.

But in every case senior officers decided that the journey they were making justified breaking the speed limit.

Derbyshire Police made the admission after The Derby Evening Telegraph used the Freedom of Information Act to obtain the statistics.

It came a day after a Derbyshire officer accused of driving at 90mph in a 30mph zone walked free from court because his car's black box recorder, central to the case, had gone missing.

Yesterday, anti-speed camera campaigners attacked the force for "letting off" its speeding drivers.

The drivers of the 59 marked police vehicles were all sent notices of intended prosecution, which were revoked when they appealed to their superiors.

Cars attending emergency calls are exempt from speeding penalties and usually an officer on a 999 call radios camera monitoring staff if they pass a speed camera. Also, no penalties are issued if the flashing blue lights are seen by the camera. Most police cars have two lights on their roof which flash in sequence so one is always visible.

In each of the 59 cases no blue light could be seen and no call was made by the driver.

Supt Royston Smith, the head of Derbyshire Police's criminal justice unit, said: "Every case accepted that the vehicle being used was for operational police purposes in circumstances where it was necessary for the speed limit to be exceeded in the course of their duties."

He claimed that some of the cars might have been captured on camera at the split second their flashing blue light was not visible, which he said was the situation in "at least" 14 cases when the cars had strobe lights.

"If the people who examine the camera photos cannot see a blue light flashing, they automatically issue a summons. Once the officer gets the ticket they can then appeal and explain what the use was of the vehicle at the time.

"This is then subject to a rigorous examination by their divisional commanders and the head of the criminal justice section." He said there was no legal requirement to use lights and sirens when attending emergencies, and suggested that some officers turned them off to avoid alerting criminals.

But Caroline Chisolm, the spokesman for the road safety charity Brake, said the figures "smack of double standards with one rule for the police and another for the public".

She added: "It's a disturbing precedent when the police appear to be seen to be breaking the law and getting away with it.

"Safe drivers are getting fed up with being penalised for exceeding a speed limit by a very narrow margin. Little wonder they lose confidence in the police when officers are seen to escape punishment for the same offence."

Mark McArthur-Christie, a spokesman for the Association of British Drivers, said: "How come we have situations where a highly qualified private motorist and an equally well-trained police officer who both break the speed limit can be treated so differently?

"But more worryingly it is symbolic of a much deeper problem. It is evidence of more damage being done to the relationship between the police and the public, who are increasingly losing confidence."

Kevin Clinton, the head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: "Any emergency driver, especially one exceeding the speed limit, should at least use blue lights. People need time to identify where vehicles are coming from, particularly at high speed, so they know how to react."

Last year, more than 51,000 speeding tickets were issued by the Derbyshire Safety Camera Partnership and Derbyshire Police. The partnership is increasing the number of mobile cameras over the bank holiday weekend.

A spokesman said it was "satisfied" with the police handling of the 59 cases. "Each incident was investigated by divisional commanders and by the head of criminal justice and we support their decision not to prosecute."
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See that from Brake? Are they coming our way?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The puzzle for me are the so-called pragmatic Labour politicians. They now have 4 years to win back ground and respect from voters. Boundary reforms will probably lose them a further 20 seats in next election based on same results. The pragmatic tactic is to minimise the pain/upset caused to their target voting groups particularly skilled workers. But as more cameras are switched on and the accumulation of points continues, we will reach a tipping point of impact. Such voters are influenced by articles like these and it becomes a double blow on both the perception of fighting crime and the respect for the Labour Government.

I can't see how you got that from the quote!

Of course not, she wants the Police prosecuted also.

I think he "gets it" from


The specific use of the phrases "safe drivers" and "exceeding a speed limit" in the same sentence sounded a bit like the sound of a penny dropping to me...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

But couple it with:


Now I am very surprised that you would quote or acknowledge a partial quote. You'll be working for the BBC if they see your adeptness with the part quote or susceptibility to it. Perhaps it's the sheep-like attitude to all Smith views you have developed. Shameful!

Even in its original context, the sentence I quoted still clearly conveys the acknowledgement by a BRAKE spokesman that safe drivers exceed speed limits.

The use of the "partial quote" was merely to answer your question about which part of the original quote conveyed this unusually optimistic view about BRAKE.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

But they aren't breaking the law so dry your eyes Steve. Stop trying to stir it and go and write your letter of resignation so the rest of the world can get on with doing something that actually saves lives.....

And if you can demonstrate your adeptness at repeating a discredited statistic ad-infinitum until it becomes a part of the public pshyche we could work for.... hmmm, , a Camera Partnership perhaps

Brake wrote:

"Safe drivers are getting fed up with being penalised for exceeding a speed limit by a very narrow margin. "

It seemed clear enough to me, a full sentence not taken out of context.
I think you need to do better JJ.

Baa Humbug!

Cheers
Peter

Answer me one question, Steve, JJ or whoever you are:

You're driving your car down a hill. You glance at your speedo and see that you've crept over the limit.
What do you think at that moment:

a) Oh my god! I'm going to crash! I'm going to die! M-U-S-T G-E-T S-P-E-E-D D-O-W-W-W-N-N-N

b) I hope none of our guys are operating in this area.

c) No problem, I'm a good driver and I know there arent any scaperas around here.

d) I know full well that what I'm doing is not even remotely dangerous, but I must keep the charade going for as long as possible - I don't want to have to start looking for another job.

So which is it?

Cheers
Peter

As opposed to the SCPs...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Why? Look - if we are on a shout or in pursuit - we have to drive a bit sharpish. If some woman is having three bells knocked out of her - we have to get there to stop it - same as if some one is going beserk in a pub.... But - it has to be genuine call and we have to prove we are allowed to drive fast We cannot and should not be allowed to drive fast to "test a car..." - unless we have been authorised to do so.

As for sirens .. depends on the circumstances - we may go just on lights when we get within hearing distance of the crime scene as sirens tend to alert the suspect and we do not catch him/her as a result. If there is a hazard such as lights - then we are supposed to use the who-whoos to let other drivers know we are approaching the crossroads.

Of course, we do not have these problems in our patch and I believe North Yorks is the same.

You see - because we do things the traditional way - all our divisions are aware of what is going on - and we do use the lights and the sho-whoos as origianlly trained to. Derbyshire clearly needs to come and leran from us. We do not rely on dodgy web site games and those two blokes in a pub or even dodgier training outings (which my mate ,will, pulled me over on last year.)

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I thought that everytime the emergency services (including the Police) trip speed camera they have to fill in a form confirming it was an emergency call....sounds logical to me. More form filling but thats what you get with automated justice.

I wonder if any were busted by mobile cameras...that would be just mean...

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Speed camera policy Kills