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 Post subject: Interesting
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 17:28 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 17:41 
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What a refreshing outburst of common sense from the magistrates.
The key part of the decision is this:
Quote:
Ordinarily, six points would have been put on her licence - invoking an automatic ban for someone of her experience.

[For experience substitute AGE]. She is clearly a far better driver than most persons of her age, and while the law states that at that age 6 points warrants a ban, the magistrates have recognised that the law has not taken into account her superior driving experience being equal to or better than one of older years, who would require 12 points for a ban.
I would hazard a guess that a Ferrari is probably a better equipped car to be doing 100 mph than most family saloons - a vintage Vauhall Victor doing 60 mph would IMHO be more dangerous if you were to step in front of one!

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 17:42 
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Interesting, but not terribly correct..
Quote:
"...Motorsports authorities would then have withdrawn her racing licence, bringing an end to her season and leaving her scant hope of gaining further sponsorship."

As far as I can remember there is no actual requirement to have a road licence in order to race. The MSA guidelines used to suggest that a racing licence be suspended if you lost your road licence because of drink driving or serious cases of dangerous driving, but not for speeding or normal "totting up".

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 17:50 
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Also getting 6 points in two years does not lead to a disqualification, it just means you revert to a provisional licence and can sit the driving test again immediately. Which is expensive, but not the same as a ban.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 18:02 
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Zamzara wrote:
Also getting 6 points in two years does not lead to a disqualification, it just means you revert to a provisional licence and can sit the driving test again immediately. Which is expensive, but not the same as a ban.

As a matter of interest, does that then wipe your points off?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 20:18 
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Yes its a breath of freash air, but surely it still sucks in many ways.

1) Like the ferrari, my bike is pretty well equiped to go very fast.
2) Unlike the ferrari, my bike will cause less damage if it did hit something.
3) Unlike this girl, I actually DO have many years experience on the road.
4) Even if by some amazing chance she is a better driver than me, since when has road skill been a get out? Isnt going fast an abomination bound to cause death and carnage?
4) You dont need a road licence to partake in motorsport.
5) Even if you did, since when has a need for a licence been a get out?

Why couldnt I say to the arsehole that pinged me for a minor speed infringement (not 30 over the limit), that being a biker makes me a far better road user than average dumbed down numpties behind the wheel, and Im so used to speed, that I am more than qualified to go that little bit faster. It sucks, and its seriously pissing me off right now :(

I bet she was good looking.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 20:45 
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"You were speeding - you may be a superb driver but that makes no difference at all.

Being a trained driver makes all the difference if you happen to wear a uniform, even if you do happen to take the car without prior consent and spank it up a motorway at 160mph.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 23:09 
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I surprised that few folk in this thread have made the clear and important distinction between the car control skills of a track driver and the road craft skills of an experienced road driver.

Track skills are worth next to nothing on the road, and especially so when you've had a hazard perception failure.

On the road it's all about being prepared for the actions of others. I don't believe that ANY 18 year old has well honed hazard perception skills.

On the track it's all about maximising grip. Those skills are nice to have in a road emergency, but they don't keep you out of emergencies in the first place.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 23:28 
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Then again, it could be argued that - given the relative road geometry, lines of sight, lack of junctions etc - and given an equivalent traffic density, it's arguably safer for any driver (including novices) to be doing 100mph on a motorway than 50mph on a single-carriageway NSL road.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 06:32 
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Kevin Clinton, head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents wrote:
"The magistrates' decision sent out the wrong message.

"Speeds of 100mph and above frequently lead to fatalities and are simply not acceptable.


But Not in or around Telford on the M54 by all accounts.

Perhaps this individual could give us the statistics and spin on how doing a ton on a grade A dual carriageway leads to frequent fatalities.

If they said something sensible, we'd listen.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 09:47 
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PaulF wrote:
Kevin Clinton, head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents wrote:
"The magistrates' decision sent out the wrong message.

"Speeds of 100mph and above frequently lead to fatalities and are simply not acceptable.


But Not in or around Telford on the M54 by all accounts.

Perhaps this individual could give us the statistics and spin on how doing a ton on a grade A dual carriageway leads to frequent fatalities.

If they said something sensible, we'd listen.

I'd noticed that as well... :( Thought to myself "What's a berk like that doing as head of road safety at RoSPA?". He seems to have fallen into the idiot mentality propogated by our "masters" that speed in and of itself is dangerous and that any speed in excess of a convenient round number is lethal.

Maybe it wouldn't be so dangerous if we were to drive at 86.83 nautical miles per hour instead! :P

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 15:29 
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PeterE wrote:
As a matter of interest, does that then wipe your points off?


No I don't believe so.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 17:04 
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Zamzara wrote:
PeterE wrote:
As a matter of interest, does that then wipe your points off?


No I don't believe so.


That's what I've heard too.

You keep your points, but you don't start afresh on the 2 year 'probation' period. It's 2 years from the time you first pass your test. Presumably you would be reverted to learner status again if you received any more points.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 19:25 
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Julesm wrote:
I bet she was good looking.


No not really. Picture in today's Stun.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 20:00 
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PaulF wrote:
But Not in or around Telford on the M54 by all accounts.

In and around Telford on the M54 you're often lucky to get above 56mph, most of it being 2-lane, I'm afraid :x

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 23:58 
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CJB wrote:
PaulF wrote:
But Not in or around Telford on the M54 by all accounts.

In and around Telford on the M54 you're often lucky to get above 56mph, most of it being 2-lane, I'm afraid :x


I know it's only 2 lane there: That's why the local Police drivers like to 'practice' on the unlit motorway in the dark when other people aren't around (considerate, eh?). Fancy what would happen if a patrol car hit a fox or a rabbit (or something bigger but nevertheless unseen in the dark) - unexpectedly - at that speed????

True, they don't drive that fast on the side roads and back streets around Telford. Only upto 88 (or was it 84?) MPH on roads mere mortals like the rest of us are prohibitted on pain of theft from exceeding just 30mph....

Still, policemen come with x-ray vision these days. All these drunks that the rest of us are expected to take responsibility for and S L O W down to a crawl (with the runner and red flag ready); well x-ray vision equiped coppers are a different bread from the rest of us.

They called it Pride Integrity & Guts when some low life called close friends in the service "PIGS", fortunately, they've all left so now I don't feel restrained... But I'm not going to inflate their egos by using such words which have such an excellent phrase thereto associated... No, I'd rather just call it the way it is: The police force are a fucking joke. Their automated equipment nicks a bloke taking his wife - in labour - to hospital at 11 mph over the top in a 50 and it takes weeks of wrangling before some brain somewhere in the upper echelons of the force thinks twice about the sixty quid and the damage the persecution will have wrought upon the force and drops it - then we get the automatic nicking - which goes all the way - of the poor bastard who's done his unknown fellow citizen the service of getting out of the way of his ambulance; technically breaking the law by driving over the stop line at a red light to get out of the way.

The fucking idiots in South Yorkshire just can't resist the "easy pickings" of the absolute offence of crossing the stop line on a red signal. The sucker was just another easy sixty quid. Let's not inflate their egos any more. They are a fucking joke for doing this...

Of course, colleagues in West Yorkshire know nothing about their islamic bombers destined for London - these people never used their own cars and so would not have appeared on film breaking any motoring laws... And so bombs go off: "We need communities to talk to us" says Chief Constable Ian Blair - what would he like heinous criminals who selfishly take their wives to hospital when giving birth or other 'kid-killers' to tell him when not 'running red lights' to get out of the way of Ambulances of all things???

All is rosy in the garden of Eden? Erm, we are suspicious of ?????

And of course, while these wonderful super-human beings are protecting people from speeding motorists anywhere between 5 and 10 mph over the top of the speed limit, whilst "severely punishing" these audacious people who willfully drive across a white line on the road surface in a reckless attempt to get out of the way of an ambulance with its sirens going, these very people allow an alleged bomber to just get on another train at Waterloo and simply leave the country - no questions asked, no passports checked !!!!!

Talking of not asking questions (not getting the right sort of information and feedback from the public they so strive to serve {can't think why}), they make a tiny incy-wincy mistake and tail the first brown skinned male who comes out of a block of flats - all the way to the nearest tube station. When they pull a gun on the poor fellow, and he does a silly thing (like thinking "fuck, these people have a gun, they might kill me" for whatever other reason), so they chase him down and put EIGHT bullets in the back of his head when he's on the floor!!!!

See what happens when you don't drive a car where ANPR can shadow your every move around the country??? See what happens when your 3 and 4 mph excesses aren't 'safely' stored on film????? For cash, sorry, information purposes? See, see?!?! Bad guys just get on a train and leave the country without challenge, other people get shot loads of times and 'the enforcers' don't get at your hard earned cash!!!!!!

If it wasn't so sad, if people hadn't died in this, if other people's lives were not now at risk (I mean the poor bastards being conveyed in ambulances to hospital who will now be held up because some thieving bastard wanted to make his cash forcast that day and could not be dissuaded otherwise) you could not write a better sit-com than this, could you????

A joke. Just a sad joke.

---------------------------------------------

To be fair, those coppers on the ground, with the right drive and reasons for being there do a sterling job which we should all be grateful for. I feel desparately sorry for the good, ordinary decent coppers out there. But sympathy is a word found between shit and syphilus in a dictionary. If there isn't a radical rethink about how we are being policed soon, I genuinely fear our country will endure great turmoil.

Sorry for ranting, people - I just felt I had to say it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 00:13 
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RichardB wrote:
Zamzara wrote:
PeterE wrote:
As a matter of interest, does that then wipe your points off?


No I don't believe so.


That's what I've heard too.

You keep your points, but you don't start afresh on the 2 year 'probation' period. It's 2 years from the time you first pass your test. Presumably you would be reverted to learner status again if you received any more points.


Upon passing both parts of the test again - licence is returned witht he 6 points - and further points then tot to a ban - at which point the mags would probably ban and insist on extended test before re-issue of full licence. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 00:48 
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Blimey Pauly F - you ain't half mad at us! :shock: :shock:

I agree - cases like the chap taking his wife to hospital does not help. I seem to recall Mad Doc worrying over this when Wildy :neko: was due to give birth to their youngest. She was "high risk" patient because of - er - the past and Ted was a little concerned about having to make a mercy run and then having to explain himself to his local SpeedFinder General with whom he has some furball fights on here and old Wildy :neko: does go for him on the PH site too! :lol: As it happened - I do believe he did make some - er - progress but without any problems. If he'd been unlucky - dare say he'd have fought it.

I also agree that the red light incident is equally unhelpful - and the magistrates and CPS should have been more sensible - but then do not have the evidence which may have been submitted to the court either - but as pointed out on the thread concerned - this is where honest policemen can judge a situation better.

I also agree that the incident at Stockwell was more than unfortunate - and that intelligence should have been a lot tighter and I agree that it is very worrying, unsettling and even un English to see armed police walking around as at present. However, the speed in which those involved have been caught is very commendable and you must admit that we got this right - surely?


Much more to this job than policing roads and I am the first to point out that a routine pull has copped many a hardened criminal in the past. Why I think we earn our keep :wink:

But most BiB do a decent honset day's work and we deal with some really horrid people. You would not like to meet the people I have met. From being a young recruit - been gobbed on, vomited on, spat at -in the eyes, in the nose , in urrgh! the mouth! :shock: Punched in stomach, in face and so on - (they came off worse :twisted: ). Had knives and guns pulled on me and things chucked at from a great height. Oh - been kicked in the ghoulies a few times and had the funny walk and the high pitched voice as well. Fortunately I recovered and managed to have kids (not sure if that's "fortunate" as mine are even naughtier than Ted's "litter" :shock: :? :shock: and cost me a fortune as well in uni fees and "demands" :twisted: :evil: )

But any way - that's the job most of us signed the dotted line on - and has its rewards when we lock up the baddies for you - and that's what we try to do here on our patch. No scams, no nit picking - buit aimiing straight at the small minority who spoil it for the rest of us. And let you into a little secret too - not many policemen actually like :gatso2: either ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 00:59 
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Think I'd have felt happier if they'd ordered some lessons on driving on public roads. Do not doubt the lass can handle a car at speed - but like our Paul - wonder about her attitude towards other road users given her road experience is considerably less than the track one.

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 Post subject: Theres more
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 00:02 
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From the EDP

A magistrate in the case of the teenage racing driver caught driving at 100mph in her Ferrari on the A11 in Norfolk has defended the court's decision not to impose a ban.

Road safety groups were angered by the decision to allow 18-year-old Anna Walewska to carry on driving after Central Norfolk Magistrates heard a ban would have placed her hopes of a career in motorsport in jeopardy.

Walewska's solicitor Robert Warner had told the court that, as a newly qualified driver, she would ordinarily have received six points and an automatic ban. Instead she receive five points and no ban.

But magistrate Vanessa Fairhead-Woolnough insisted the five-point penalty - which effectively places Walewska on probation - was more likely to improve her driving than the discretionary 42-day ban at the court's disposal.

And she said Walewska had been misinformed by her solicitor as court guidelines dictate that first time offenders should receive four or five points.

Mrs Fairhead-Woolnough said: “This was the right penalty as she was a first time offender, the road conditions were good and there was no rain or anything else which exacerbated the incident.

“We do have the power to enforce a ban of up to 42 days in such cases but this is the upper end of the scale and we would have had to have found aggravating circumstances to impose such a sentence. The court heard about Miss Walewska's career but we treated her just as we would any other first time offender.

“Had we given a ban it would not have provided the same incentive for her to improve her driving as having five points on her licence. In effect she is now on probation and has been told that if she offends again she will face a stricter penalty.”

Meanwhile a bereaved mother who has campaigned for stricter punishments for speeding and dangerous drivers since the death of her daughter has called for magistrates to be given increased powers when dealing with such cases.

Liz Voysey, from Dereham, began campaigning for road safety groups Roadpeace and Brake after her 19-year-old daughter Amy Upcraft died in an accident on the A47.

Amy was killed in March 2004 as she sat in her static car following a minor collision with a moped. As she telephoned for help a vehicle travelling at 83mph hit her vehicle causing it to explode. The driver was fined £300 and given seven penalty points, avoiding a disqualification.

Mrs Voysey has called for increased sentencing powers for speeding offences. She believes that more motorists caught driving at potentially fatal speeds should face bans. She said: “This lax attitude towards offending drivers is absolutely unacceptable. I feel such cases belittle the death of my daughter and countless other drivers because motoring offences are trivialised beyond belief.”

Mrs Voysey has also campaigned for fatalities to be taken into account when prosecuting motorists for careless driving - currently deaths are considered irrelevant in court and only the standard of driving is taken into account.


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