Safe Speed Forums

Oh dear...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4225094.stm





Probably needs to go and figure out a bunch of lie-numbers to blame it on speed...

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My friends call me RuFFy

just

Inappropriate speed will probobly be included in the blame for this accident on the a31. You wont get a camera there! It is rural it will cost too much and it won't raise enough revenue and its near Winchester ... and Hampshire wont put one near the good peopple of Winchester they are far too posh. Not when they can impose 4 more cameras on a trunk road in and out of Southampton and Portsmouth where power is nearer and the revenues are just amazing.

put the city names into this link and you can see what I mean.

Usually with boy racer/ weekend biker fatalities (where biker is to blame) it's the need or desire to speed for the thrill of that speed which causes the fatalities.

The existence of the need to feel the thrill by it's very definition put the rider/driver on/beyond the edge of their abilities.

This is the problem!

It's the fulfilment of a basic desire or need. Its all in the mind. They will do it wherever they can.

The best preventatitve technique is education following proper understanding of the problem.

But their attitude to speed at the time of the collision is the polar opposite of the mental state of 99% of those caught on camera.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Without wanting to appear the sort that "jumps to conclusions", it is probably safe to say that the 5 (yes, 5) youngsters that were crammed in to the Pug 106 were more than likely "pushing it"

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

No doubt as time goes on reasons and explanations for this traggic loss of life will surface.
The family will be going through such a terrible time, and becasue of the rural location the grief will ripple through the place like dropping a pebble into a pool.
My heart goes out to the families, and the communities.

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belladonna
'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
Socrates

if the experts come out and say that poor driving was primary cause, this forum will use it as a reason or justification that speed cameras are a bad thing

if speeding is cited as a primary or root cause, this forum will likely laugh at the findings and reject them as politically or fiscally based.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

That may be so...............but surely that is what a 'debating' forum is about??
As long as we keep discussing the 'why's-and-wherefor's', we become wiser and safer, and if the sites that hold these discussions become larger and well known, then a wider selection of the population will see and listen to what is being said.

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belladonna
'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
Socrates

Inappropriate speed for the conditions may well be a contributary factor/the root cause (It was IIRC raining heavily) - that however is not necessarily the same as exceeding a speed limit (and when it's hammering it down inappropriate speed may well be entirely legal). Speed cameras cannot even act as a deterrant to inappropriate speeds within the posted limit.

I agree with your points, however there is very little 'debating' on this particular subject on these boards.

On these boards, speed cameras are "bad" despite ANY contrary evidence presented. In fact I would go so far as to say that any evidence (no matter how flakey) in favour of cameras is accepted and acclaimed as gospel truth and anything even remotely contrary is laughed out. I have two unarguable examples in my own life where speed cameras have or could have made a difference for the better but presenting them on these boards has been rejected, full stop. The reason is that this board is populated with a self-selecting group, whereas the greater population are prepared to admit that there are two sides to every story.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

post removed ... irrelevant and posted in the wrong spirit

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

I've just seen the item on the ITV news.

A couple of relevant points - young people often drive cars with little safety protection and low insurance, e.g. Citroen Saxo, AX, Vauxhall Corsa etc. Not surprisingly young males (and some young females) feel invincible and are incapable of assessing the risks of what they are doing.

Let's not forget what we did when we were younger - when I was 17 (40 years ago) after passing my test I did some really stupid driving manoeuvres including grossly excessive speed for the conditions. The difference is nothing came the other way and I stayed on the road - it was luck not judgement.

The only precaution we as a society can take is better education and more more BiBs around in traffic cars to carry out this education.

Yep absolutely, I cringe when I think of some of the things I got away with when I was 17 . Ten years later I am so much safer (attitude and risk awareness being the biggest factors).



Yes but I knew it all at 17. Now I know I don't, so I probably know more.

Hi Andy

Some on this board do feel that there is a use and a place for some speed cameras, residential rat runs, housing estates etc where the occasional excessive speeder is causing danger to the vulnerable road user (although the offenders in these situations are often unidentifiable from the car reg). The problem is that these areas are not enforced by cameras because local awareness would render them financially unviable. They'd also be much more likely to be vandalised. If they were not linked to profit, then I feel they could be much more appropriately located, perhaps even covert with good informative reasoned signing stating that covert enforcement is in place on this road because x y z.

I'm sorry your side of the argument has been hijacked or ridiculed in some way or other. I'm sure I can recall (in the members forum) that you were considered a potential quality pro camera debater when you first came on, and your presence was welcomed, due to the absence of much other quality pro-camera argument.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Could you point out a flaw in my argument please rather than just 'hand waving' it away? - your attitude appears to be more fixed and unmoving than mine.

Thanks for your comments, and sorry for my earlier petulance - it's been one of those weeks and I was in a nihilistic frame of mind. It's probably better if I refrain from posting when in that kind of mood.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

A young driver on another forum I use asked where the camera was in this case!

Don't worry, I directed him towards here for an education.

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www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

point taken, I've removed my post and I apologise for the lack of thought that went into it in the first place.

My attitude has moved in that I now accept that not ALL cameras are correctly sited or correctly used, and I accept that these ones cause bad feeling against all of them. I also accept - although this was something I believed prior to joining the debate here - that not all speed limits are correct. The conjunction of speed limits that appear too low and speed cameras can have a really bad effect on the perception of road users.

I still believe cameras, used correctly, are a tool that can improve one aspect of road safety.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Apology accepted. I doubt we shall ever agree on the use of cameras front, but I should be interested to learn what you would consider 'used correctly'.

But all they do is slow cars down for about 100 ft. (usually whether they are above the speed limit or not , had one slow to about 25 on a 40 dual carriageway in front of me last night )

How is that helping anything ?