Safe Speed Forums

When overtaking on a single carriageway, should you indicate at the start of the manouevre then cancel the indication when you have moved across the lane, or should the indicator remain on until the end of the manouevre?

Similarly, what is the recommended process when overtaking on a dual carriageway / motorway?

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once you've moved who would you be indicating to? Cancel it once across and then indicate left when moving back if you feel it's going to help someone. Unless you're French - they seem to like leaving it on.

I think I have seen elsewhere on this forum someone complaining about the 'single flash' type indication that seems to be so common.

I am not keen on the 'single flash' as there is a chance it could be missed.

I've also seen professional drivers (lorry drivers) appearing to keep the indicator on until the end of the entire manouever and returning to the original lane, hence my question.

I've seen it happen in France and my understanding was that they saw the entire move out - pass - move back as a single operation, whereas we seem to have move out as one manouever, overtake as the second, move back (on DC and M'way) as the third (although this is obviously optional as the central lane owners club can testify).

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

definitely not single flash. You should start indicating at least a few seconds before you move to make sure that everyone who needs to see it has had time to see it. The problem is that people treat indicators as "I'm moving" as opposed to "I'd like to move".

Personally I like to have the indicator on for about 3 flashes or so before moving out (maybe longer - depends a bit on how alert I think the drivers around me are from the way they've been driving), keep it on during the overtake, and switch it to a left flash just before moving back over. The point of indicating is to show intentions, so if it fails to do so by being on to briefly (i.e. that annoying single flash) or gives the wrong impression by remaining on after it should have been cancelled/changed (i.e. flashing right when overtake is about to be completed by moving left) then IMO it's not achieving its aim.

(Edit: looking at the thread title again I ought to add that I'm not an advanced driver and that's just an opinion.)

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On single carriageway, signal before carrying out the overtake, cancel when crossed centre line, no need to signal when moving back in as should be well clear of vehicle being overtaken.

Indicators of most benefit to any vehicles behind before the overtake started, long headlight flash may be more useful to get the attention of driver to be overtaken ( but can be interpreted as aggressive ) as indicator doesnt stand out as much in their rear view mirror.

Also can and should mean "I intend to move".

"I'd like to move" when one does not have right of way (e.g. waiting to turn out of minor road).

"I intend to move" when one does have right of way (e.g. intending to turn off major road).

I'm with Gastobait on this one - indicate right until you are ready to pull in.

The reasons:

Overtaking is fairly intensive manoeuvre and I don't want to be fiddling with the indicator stalk while I am pulling out, hitting the welly pedal hard, and having to consider the car hitting the rev limiter - I want that left hand ready to change gear if required. At the same time I need to be concentrating on being aware of other vehicles that might have followed me, might approach from in front or from a side road. To qualify this slightly, my car is a bit on the nippy side, and time in the wrong lane is about 3 seconds max for an artic, so I don't have much time to play with.

It is an additional warning to any other vehicle that may appear that I am on the wrong side of the road - I want to give as much warning as possible to avoid a SMIDSY type incident.


On a motorway or dual carriageway however I only indicate to change lanes - 3 flashes before crossing the line and in the mean time a quick check of the blind spot to be safe.

I know that in France they keep the indicator on all the time while overtaking even on DC roads, but they will pull back in again. Certainly in France and in Spain the keeping the indicator flashing is considered to mean "I want to overtake", and is recognised by other drivers as "pull back in as soon as you can I want to get past" - and they do. This is much better than the significantly more aggressive flashing of headlights that the UK drivers use for the same purpose.

I tend to go with the Highway Code for each country I'm driving in as a rule of thumb.

I use my indicators and other signals as matter of courtesy and information to other road users ahnd solely for their benefit. I make sure any visual indication is clear as far as I am aware (no coffee bean or other gestures given - so guess I must be OK! ) If on a motorway - generally allow the indicator to flash long enough for others to see my intention - and always use COAST principles to take in body language, position language, speed movement I follow MIRROR - SIGNAL - MANOEUVRE accordingly - and I return to lane as soon as it's safe to do and indicate if appropriate.

All overtaking requires a plan based on the COAST information - so you look out for the hazards, allow the space and time to get into positiuon and and signal as appropriate to the situation. For example if there is a right hand tunr filter - other party may misread the intention and I thus cancel the indicator If I overtake someone and another car is behind me ands makes it clear he'd like to pass when clear - I will indicate a return to inner lane after an overtake..

Basically - it's about the road condition at the time and your professional judgement as a motorist. Certainly - I strive to make sure all know my intention by road position and indications as matter of courtesy on the road. Wildy is very similar in her attitude too.

I recommend a read of Road Craft and Paul Ripley both on this topic.

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If it's clear behind I don't usually indicate at all to overtake.

If the overtakee isn't aware of what I'm doing by my vehicle position, then I'd rather pass him before he wakes up. It's my responsibility to ensure that he has no reason to turn across me or obstruct my path.

If there's stuff behind I have to be very aware that they might be considering their own overtake, and indicate as necessary.

Overtaking decisions are best taken from a fully 'out' position, and I'm somewhat disinclined to indicate if I'm pulling out for a look. Three or four of those and chummy in front might be feeling a little ragged. So I stay a fair distance back and don't indicate unless absolutely necessary.

If I'm overtaking more than one (block overtake), it can be helpful to leave the right indicator on as confirmation to following overtaking traffic that I'm staying out.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Once I'm committed into an overtaking manouvre, what my indicators are doing is the last thing on my mind. I always indicate before pulling out and sometimes they may cancel, other times they may remain on, I'm concentrating on the manouvre so I can never tell.

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www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

Overtaking doesn't need to be so stressful. The secret's in the planning. Once you have acquired enough prior knowledge to make an overtaking decision, the move itself is quick, easy and stressless.

The best place to ACTUALLY make the decision is AFTER you have pulled out and can see clearly past the target vehicle. (Ever noticed how much easier it is to overtake number 2 in a block overtake? Set yourself up for number 1 as if it was number 2...)

Health warning: Overtaking is potentially risky. You are responsible for those risks. Be careful when trying to use written advice. It may have been misunderstood.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Quite simply the best piece of advice I have read for ages. Thank you.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Thanks. It's something of a personal nightmare to write something that is misunderstood and causes a crash. Nowhere is this risk greater than in describing overtaking technique. I've actually avoided publishing an 'overtaking advice' web page for exactly this reason. (Or maybe I've become extremely skilled at procrastination... )

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Another point is that most urban-based drivers will get very little experience of overtaking, and so will either tend to avoid it completely, or not understand how to do it safely and decisively.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I find the decision making stressful due to poor, dangerous road engineering making overtaking more difficult than neccessary. I've also been a crash victim caused by someone who made a poor overtaking decision, so anything to do with overtaking I find stressful. Sometimes its essential for decent safe progress to overtake and I'm just grateful that I have a car that accelearates quick enough to mean I'm on the wrong side of the road for the minimum time possible without just cutting in.

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www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

Trust me. I've been there. The right training will make all the difference in the world - it's got to be worth a try, right?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Each overtake varies according to traffic condition.. in the COAST system - you take in every piece of information by observing - what ist behind you - driver behind - is he going to overtake you un cause you to wait for your chance? Ist driver in front likely to overtake? - Speed of cars in front and any oncoming car - you judge - observe - anticipate...

What about road layout? You observe the potentials.. parked cars, long vehicle, bus, stream of cars ahead and potential gaps, junction, bus stop - lights or roundabout ahead ... have you gap top move into - giving time and space to overtakee once you complete the overtake... and most importantly are you aware of your car's and your own handling capabilities?


Your signalling will also depend on your courtesy, observations and anticipation, space and time skills


COAST - is the Roadcraft way as well - information... position... speed... gear...aceleration... completetion of overtake...planning with space and time.

But you judge...is your call. You are manager /decision maker when behind wheel of car and you act according to road conditions, safe speed and safe behaviour for each situation. You judge in your role as driver when is safe and when not safe as you use every skill involved in the five safety led C O A S T linked areas of driving.

Cannot stress importance of concentrating, observing, anticipating, planning with allowing space and time enough. Not fool proof - nothing in life ist 100% - but it helps - a lot!

Have read of Road Craft anyway.

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