Safe Speed Forums

yes, you should definitely put your convenience ahead of the safety of others.

Well as I am now being accused of being criminally dangerous by having my dipped beams on while stationary for even the most briefest of moments, can some of you experts explain to me exactly at what point you are supposed to take your hand of the wheel to that switch by your right knee?

Is it at the exact moment when the vehicle starts rolling?
Or are you allowed to switch them on say as your foot starts to lift off the clutch?
Or perhaps it should only be at the point when dazzling is no longer a danger such as when you are on the correct side of the road?

I presume then that you all turn your headlights off when you stop at a offset crossroads in case a vehicle is coming the other way.

If you are that concerned about dazzling, I presume you switch to sidelights every time you go over a speed bump, humpback bridge or any other such change in elevation.


My simple points are:

Dipped headlights are a simple and clear indication to other drivers that your car is active and intending to move. At any time that it is dark or visibility is limited in some way they should be on.

I do not agree with switching to parking or side lights when you are momentarily stationary - my definition for when they should be used is when you are parked - as in the vehicle is in a parked position, with handbrake on.

I believe in being in control of the vehicle at all times and buggering about locating a switch that the vehicle designers have determined is not intended to be used while in motion is not my idea of being in control.


To me switching to parking lights is a clear indication that you are parking, and therefore have no intention of moving in the immediate future - if you think that deliberately misleading other road users to your intentions contributes anything towards road safety, then I am obviously on the wrong forum.

Feel free to take my words literally - however I would recommend taking them like all other general advice, in context and with some common sense too

Don't take offence! It's meant to be an exchange of views after all.
(no-one has answered my question about con & use/RTA anyway!)

As you say "You will be stationary for longer in any of these situations than Sam intended to be"

Intended - is the key there, he may not have intended to be static for long but how long does it take to dazzle someone and how long was he eventually static for? Bearing in mind an approaching vehicle would (hopefully) have slowed down considerably to pass as the drivers field of vision was seriuously diminished the effect would be much worse than he had intended.

As for stopping at railway crossings etc. If I felt that others may be dazzled (a vehicle in close proximity, facing me or coming through some temporary roadworks' traffic lights for example) I would certainly put my lights down to side lights.
As Paul points out in his post about passing places it can aid their vision and is an act of consideration. I don't find it too much effort at all.

On balance, if the headlights would not be needed, as in when reversing, parked or similar, and would inconvenience or dazzle others I see no reason to leave them lit.

As for being 'Active', with no wish to appear rude, I have never been mistaken for a parked vehicle and I would disagree that leaving your headlights on will convince someone of any activity or intention. But that's only my opinion!

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

When I used to work as a taxi driver I worked nights. When I stopped to drop passengers off on the 'wrong' side of the road I always switched to sidelights while they paid and disembarked. It took no time at all, caused me no inconvenience and I considered it a courtesy to any other vehicles who might otherwise have been blinded by my lights. I don't understand what the problem is with doing this

In the OPs position I would have switched to sides when I stopped on the other side of the road. If the road he lives on is lit then sides would be enough to allow him to be seen while reversing but would have prevented the oncoming vehicle being dazzled.

Just my 2p.

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Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

As I said in my original post I don't think you should be on the wrong side of the road in the first place, but should you decide to take this dangerous course then you could at least show the courtesy of switching to park lights rather than blinding oncoming traffic with your brighter left light.

Wrong. If you are parked on the wrong side of the road you must use sidelights, although just one on the road side of the car is apparently sufficient.

I got fined for parking without lights facing the wrong way once - and I was parked under a street light. Officious copper with nothing better to do in a quiet residential street!

BTW if it's a 40 area you must use lights whichever way you are facing. A speed limit in Hyde was reduced from 40 to 30 because of complaints from residents that they had to park with their lights on. (Well that was the excuse cited by the council anyway.) In some other 40 areas where there is a wide verge, it's customary though technically illegal to park on the verge.

Of course in France it's generally illegal not to park on the pavement...

Brian

Didn't think this would encourage so much debate. But its been really useful and has yielded exactly what I needed.

Clearly there is no absolutely definitive answer. But I'm going to avoid parking on the offside if possible (pretty much always in reality). If I ever do stop on the offside at night I'll endeavour to complete any manouvre (reversing onto the drive) quickly & safely. I think I'll use sidelights if there is any approaching traffic.

Seems like a plan. Thanks for the comments.

[ [/quote]

Wrong. If you are parked on the wrong side of the road you must use sidelights, although just one on the road side of the car is apparently sufficient.


BTW if it's a 40 area you must use lights whichever way you are facing. A speed limit in Hyde was reduced from 40 to 30 because of complaints from residents that they had to park with their lights on. (Well that was the excuse cited by the council anyway.) In some other 40 areas where there is a wide verge, it's customary though technically illegal to park on the verge.

Of course in France it's generally illegal not to park on the pavement...

Brian[/quote]

This is my technique when using my drive at home. Uaually I will drive in forwards - I have upset drivers following me before now by stopping in the road and making them wait for me to reverse in. Sometines they get impatient and overtake, highly dangerous considering the blind bend 30 yards ahead.

So I find it better to drive in forwards which takes less time.

When coming out of the drive, I can usually reverse onto the pavement/verge without pulling into the road. This gives me a better view of what is coming, but at night if on the RHS of the road I always use sidelights only whilst waiting for a gap. I need to watch out for cyclists and pedestrians though!

Another method which I use with the motor caravan is to pull into the pavement when stopping, and then reverse into my drive. I will usually have to wait for a gap in the traffic before I can reverse though, since I cannot do this without swinging into the road. But it does let any cars following me overtake first.

Also, when stopping in the road before reversing into a drive, you will sometimes be unable to reverse on account of the car behind sitting on your exhaust pipe, even though you signalled you intentions in good time.

Well, if I don't reverse onto my driveway I won't be able to open my door due to my house being in the way - easy decision really . Sometimes I drive past and stop diagonally across the road before backing in. If a parked car is in the way I turn into a small car park on the right before my house, do a left hand reverse and back it up the remaining few yards before reversing into my drive from the other direction. At night I'm more concerned with manoeuvering as quietly as possible so as not to disturb my neighbours. I have to confess I've never given a second's thought about headlights when doing this. It's a quiet cul-de-sac, and even the roads it leads on to aren't rat runs so encountering through traffic is unheard of unless someone is very lost. Probably that's not a good habit as I'm sure it means I don't think about the lights when I'm parking up elsewhere either . Off the top of my head I can't think of the last time it would have been an issue, but it's something to keep in mind.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Sam, this getting beeped is unlikely to be for your lights. Most people arn't that clued up on the highway code to get in a tiz about it, it more than likely that the other person wasn't driving with their eyes open and so was completly bemused when you had the temeritory to reverse on to your drive.

I live of a high street and a medium sized village. I'm nearly always facing the right way when I reverse. I indicate and slow down gentally and keep indicating while I perform my revseing manover. I get people pull so close behind they have to reverse! The vast majority of people reaslise that it is not beyond the realms of possiblity that someone might what to reverse onto their own drive, but I have ben beeped at and one lovely (driving a german saloon) essex lady even gave me the finger! Should I have got the RAF to air lift me off the road to save interupting her busy shedule? Would like to have followed her home and then made a fuss when she wanted to get on her drive.

[quote="anton"]If there are street lights it is leagal to park on the wrong side of the road without lights.

quote]

Anton - i seem to remember ( Can BIB CORRECT ME) that law was changed to make parking on wrong side an offence , and in that sort of case most insurance companies walk away.

If you are forced by circumstance to perform ANY manouvre on the road which is contrary to the flow of traffic, then you could signal your intention by putting your hazard lights on - either as you slow in the middle of the road prior to pulling onto the oncoming lane, OR once in that lane, as you reverse. After all, your manouvre could be construed as a hazard. It would warn those BEHIND you to keep back (no dont laugh!) and those in front that something out of the ordinary is taking place!

As to dipping lights, I would personally dip my lights, as I dont need them to see behind me, nor would I wish to dazzle drivers, but I would use discretion according to conditions.
In Windermere, there is a street where parking on both sides restricts space to just one cars width for two hundred yards or so. I will always dip my lights out of courtesy to the driver coming the other way - it indicates I am aware of his presence, AND allows him to monitor the parked cars for potential hazards without being hindered by my lights shining off the parked cars.

Finally, if it is at all possible, you should avoid reversing onto ANY road, since it usually restricts your vision, and makes you a hazard, and vulnerable to SMIDSY incidents.
Just MY 2 p's worth!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

With all due respect Adam, I'd disagree. I think it was likely to be the lights.
It's not about knowing the highway code, it was possibly the only protest that the approaching driver felt they could make to alert Sam that there was something they were not happy with. (Only a guess of course but much of what's been said here seems to endorse the idea that headlights on when static do cause dazzle and reduce visibility)

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

The typical reaction to dazzle is to respond in kind by putting the lights onto full beam, the typical reaction to a perceived movement into the path of a vehicle is the use of the horn.

Unless people react totally differently in the areas that you drive in to the way they react in the Midlands, London and South coast areas.

You may be right, I guess we'll never know exactly what the other driver was trying to communicate.
It may even have been both the lights and perceived movement across their path. After all, when approaching a vehicle from the front you can't see whether the intention is to reverse or pull across in front of you.

Life (and travel) has taught me that different people react - differently.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Possibly the horn was being used for the intended purpose "to advise of the presence of another vehicle"

I think it's common courtesy to switch off your headlights when stopped in traffic at night. The same applies to using your handbrake, instead of blinding the poor bugger behind with dazzling red brake lights!

Define "stopped" - do you switch off your lights when stopping at a Pelican Crossing or other Traffic Lights? When waiting to get onto a roundabout? When waiting to pull out at a T-Junction? When the M1 slows to stationary at 2:00am?

Or do you actually mean "parked"?

Agreed, something I don't like either, and will always put my handbrake on if stopped for anymore the briefest of seconds. I'm not saying I get shirty about it, but I certainly prefer it when someone uses their handbrake. It's particularly bad in winter when you can get very long queues at rush hour in the dark, and so are dazzled for ages.

Is this something that folks here find more annoying now that high level brake lights are so much more common than a few years ago? I do take my foot of the brake in Mrs Gatsobait's car because I do worry that the high level light might annoy the driver behind, but not having one in mine I don't bother (still use the handbrake in case I ge shunted though).

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein