Safe Speed Forums

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4258368.stm



Is it just me, or are they basically hoping to improve congestion on the roundabout by narrowing the road ("pavements will be added") and adding a pedestrian crossing? I'm also really not sure what they mean by "a left turn lane into Abbey Road is being introduced" - the left hand lane at the roundabout is already dedicated to left turns.

Madness.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Well it works on the computer simulation so you shouldn't worry.
Some of these "road designers" need to get out onto the roads in different sized vehicles to find out the requirements for them.
Most of them couldn't design their way out of a paper bag.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Nope Mike - not you. Road planners around here are just plain dumb. What they think will work - usually ends in more congestion and new accident blackspots.

Cycle lanes in this county come to mind as well as some strange mini roundabouts on approach to a couple of villages ... and speed limits...and sitings of talivans....

I am sure Ernest has photos of his fave horrors.... Have the same ones so far ...

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
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We use our smilies on YOU today
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KEEP SMILING
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Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
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I know this roundabout well - it's a dogs dinner at present, because several schemes have taken place WITHOUT regard to the existing roundabout - notably the construction of the retail park (TESCO's et al) which added an exit/entry lane onto an already busy junction.

If they are considering making the whole thing BIGGER in scale than it's present size, it could help matters, as it would allow gaps to open up in the traffic as it rounds the roundabout - at present it is tighter than a ducks rear!

The spokesperson was on site today, live on Radio Cumbria, and it will be done in stages, and remain open at all times - and work will go on until well after Christmas. I am not sure about the pedestrian crossing - I assume it will be towards the Morrisons end, and not right on the junction itself. Again, pedestrians DO make arses of themselves by stepping onto the junction far too close, forcing THEM to cross greater distances, and DRIVERS to avoid their suicidal dashes!

Note this is in BARROW Council. Cumbria County Council would have adopted one of three approaches:
1. Do nothing
2. Spend enormous amounts of money consulting, planning and then shelving the project. Or
3. Continued as above, then taken twice as long and gone three times over budget, and made everything WORSE than it was before.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

So true....of Cumbria County Council.... If they make it bigger - perhaps it'll help. On the other hand if they put in a load of pavements and cycle lanes to meet a target and to rival the ones so far painted in. up here - then ..

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I'm yet to be convinced. After what they did to Dalton a few years ago when they built the bypass (street 'furniture' absolutely everywhere, and the road through the town made so narrow that two buses can no longer pass each other, as well as lots of pretty coloured bricks and tarmac - oh, and a 20mph limit), I don't think anyone responsible for road planning within 100 mile radius of Barrow has got a clue.

Fortunately it seems I'll be away at uni for the most part of these works. So hopefully I'm going to return to find Barrow congestion-free and with lots of safe pedestrians.

Yeah.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Your post is very heavy on criticism and very short on alternatives. Where does the quote say that the road will be narrowed, and why do you take the view that this will inhibit capacity anyway? You say that you don't know what the scheme is; you then condemn it as "madness"!

Have you ever worked in the field of highway design?

I don't see how it's possible to add pavements to a road without the road becoming narrower. Wide loads driver slower when they're on a narrower road, slowing everyone down in the process.



Fortunately not.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

How many wide loads a day pass Tesco? How many extra seconds will it take you to negotiate the new junction on a daily basis?

And "without knowing the details" (by your own admission), how do you know the footways are not being provided by a dedication of private land to the highway?

Have you been to your planning office to check the details and to talk through the designs with someone?

Also, how do you plan to propose alternatives if you've never worked in the industry?

Lots.

Because there are buildings on either side.

No.

My alternative is to leave it the way it is, as it seems that this 'improvement' is going to make things worse. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong: only time will tell.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

The junction is here
The Tesco store is adjacent to the existing roundabout, while the end near the Abbey Road junction is car parking, and back of the Tesco filling station.
If they need to widen the junction, there is room to expand into the car park, either on the Tesco side, or the homebase side, or a little of both.
The pavement in front of the John Winnerah building is adequate - I suspect the pavement and crossing is to be on the Lawson Street side - that side which leads past the old customs house has been neglected, and yet is a thoughroughfare to the Forum 28 end of Duke Street etc.

I agree Dalston was a dogs dinner - not sure who was responsible, but I feel certain things will be better on Hindpool Road, since the council has changed since that date, and the Dalston work was tied in with the A590 changes, which I believe were CCC funded and designed ( )

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

DalTon! Dalston is up near Carlisle somewhere, I believe.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

The classic road planning fiasco of all time has to be the new system in St. Albans a few years ago. The entire town centre was re-defined into a new one-way system. However, whilst it allowed traffic into the centre, there was, effectively, no proper way out. Yes, really, the entire town centre 'locked-up' and the system had to be abandoned very quickly and reversion to the previous busy, but workable layout took place.
I always wondered who got fired as a result of all this expense and incompetence. No-one, probably.
Then we have the completely stupid road layout at the junction of the A14 and the M11 near Cambridge. There are a high number of accidents here caused, quite simply, by the road layout and traffic volume. The answer - more speed cameras to distract drivers just when max concentration on what is happening trafficwise and situationally is needed.
Trust road designers and planners? You must be joking! The planners screw up, then the speed camera fanatics come up with their version of a solution.

Probably because the story is one of those silly urban rumours that is actually not true.

OOOPS!! Must have been a snake from the Wild Animal Park!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Don't bank on things being better if they make the roundabout bigger - they did it in Warks to two on the A444 and now at rush hour it's more difficult to join as traffic now goes faster round them - add to that on one they've blocked the view to cars on the right "to prevent shunt accidents", (i.e make cars stop)Result - bigger Qs

Down my way replacing a large roundabout with 73 sets of traffic lights is sanity. How you can insert so many traffic lights onto a simple crossroads shows what they spend their time on. The junction has four phases along with toucan crossings across two of the approaches to the junction. Just what you need at the terminus of a motorway in the suburbs of a city nearby a retail park, and also on the old main road.

£6 million, gone! It didn't help having to rebuild the new drainage mid-way through!

Often, junction designers are restricted by central guidelines that are handed down by central government. One of the major problem areas is signal controlled junction design.

It is impossible to provide blanket guidance that covers all junctions; the result is the situation you describe.

Sadly, the DfT seems to reluctant to listen to we mere professionals, and trundles on regardless.

I'll repeat my question as above - what alternative design would you put forward, and what experience do you have in the field of highway design? Also, why wouldn't you have taken the opportunity of roadworks to replace "drainage" (which actually could have been gas, electricity, sewage, etc)? Surely you would have complained if those works had been done before or after the revised junction layout works? It seems like sensible planning to me.

millsee, you talk like a traffic planner or something like, so if you are ever in Redcar, take a look at the wonderful traffic lights outside Morrisons. Nobody has ever seen such a dog's dinner of a junction. Especially as it's only a T- junction. There are about 28 traffic light columns covering said junction and Morrisons' entance, about 100yards from a busy level crossing. There were NONE before they built Morrisons!

The worrying aspect about these complcated light controlled junctions, is that when something goes wrong - an RTA or power outage, chaos ensues. At least with a roundabout, most drivers can find their own way around!
They do take up space however!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!