Safe Speed Forums

Very interesting programme. The syndrome of the "throwaway" car seemed to cop much of the blame (along, of course, with the drivers who use them). They're too cheap to bother insuring, so they won't get taxed, and many would fail MoT anyway. Plus, the drivers are often banned or otherwise unqualified, and don't want to be bothered by a trail of documentation. They'll pay cash, of course.

The few cops that are around do a good job of pulling them in when they pick them up on ANPR and the PNC, but there'll never be enough to keep up. And, of course, they're beyond the reach of other robotic detection systems.

How can we best keep such wrecks off the road? That means both the cars and the drivers?

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Keep right on to the end of the road ...

Another interesting point they made was that "6 out of 10 accidents in Manchester area were down to hit and runs"

Not quite what Emma Reynolds of the new Pratnership there is saying! "Speed causes all accidents!"

Well - these toe rags who purchase "throw aways" will no more respect the speed limits any more than they respect any other law regarding keeping a motor vehicle.

The programme highlighted that these "motorists" are more likely than law abiding motorists (the ones who get pinged and pay up as just overs) to have serious accident!

Even more interesting was the comment "Hit and Runs, (usually committed by uninsured, untaxed and unlicenced "motorists") have increased by 62% over past 5 years!"

Now ... just exactly when did the severe scamera infestation start? About 5 years ago! When did BiBs start to diasppear from our roads? About 5 years ago!

Bit of a co-incidence!!!!

Nine times more likely. Scary programme. I tried to find a transcript for the programme, but there doesn't seem to be one. Still, Real Story web page about it includes some links, one of which says:20%? So many of the most dangerous drivers are likely to be in throwaway cars bought for a few quid, and with no docs. Someone tell me why these menaces are going to give a toss about setting off a camera? They don't care when the car gets towed and crushed, they just go get another car. They don't care if the car is roadworthy. They don't care about insurance. The don't care if they're banned. They just drive anyway. All we have to deal with the problem is a forest of Gatsos and a handful of trafplods. Oh great.
Yeah, funny that, isn't it?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Change the law so that any car dealer must get id and copy of driving licence and proof of insurance before they sell a car to someone. If they don't make them liable for the cost of any accident that car is then involved in (financial penalities are the only ones that change behaviour).

Start buying these cheap cars and get them crushed so they don't make it in the hands of those 20%. Once the only cheap cars are about £500 then it will remove quite a number of these people off the roads.

Mandatory jail sentence for anyone that hits and runs when they're found, regardless of whether they kill or just injure. If they do it more than once then make it a much longer prison sentence and give them permanent community service to keep them occupied/ tag them for at least a decade and force them to change their habits. If these people are forced to work with victim's familiies then maybe they might see what they have done.

When there is a car full of people then charge them all with the same offence and say they all get the same sentence as one of them will be guilty. Due to the HRA I am not sure this would be possible though.

I am sure that anyone who is into providing false ID, and documents will be in favour of this, their business will rocket overnight. The result could be owners being less traceable.



I believe this has been tried and the only real effect it had was to artificially inflate the value of scrap cars. And it will hit the poorest law abiding motorist the hardest. If someone has £500 to spend, and their insurance is going to be £200 then they will not be able to afford a £500 car, tax and Insurance. Therby creating an incentive for more to drive uninsured and untaxed.



If the are found.

The programme truly hilighted the fact that alot of these hit and run drivers go untraced. there are numerous motorists out there who do go uninsured and drive illegally. Maybe the answer is to bring down the cost of insurance and raise the age at which we are able to start driving. I have to say that there seems to be far more younger people driving illegally than the older more sensible ones. Those that do drive illegally as older people tend to be the ones that have previous convictions and therefore cant afford the insurance to begin with. the scheme to scrap cars which are untaxed is a good one as it seems to be getting rid of alot of the so called throwaway cars to begin with.

As most of you know I lost my 12 year old daughter to a hit and run situation and therefore I can see things more from a victims point of view.
I also keep in touch with the mum of Rebecca and Kirsty Sawyer. Rebecca was the little girl killed in a hit and run featured on the programme. The reason I am running my campaign for better sentencing of drivers who kill where an offence has been committed is purely because of what I and the families of other victims such as the "Sawyer's" are having to serve a life sentence of grief whereby the people who kill and get away with it can move on with their lives. Where is the justice in that?

One way of bringing down insurance and encouraging people to constantly improve their driving skills is as we suggested in the "Driver Improvement" forum - graded assessments and the better the grade on the assessment - the lower the insurance!

Also - we need to get rid of market for "throw away" cars where insurance costs more than the vehicle itself ( and vehicle is often dangerous!)

As you all know - my wife, "WildCat" and her cousin "SickoScamfarce" both lived in GDR for short while! Saturday's "Mail" contained an extract of life under that regime - and we can confirm that the story of the spy camera concealed in the petrol pumps at last fill up station before the "Western Route" to West Berlin is true .

OK - we concede that GDR had the "staff" to nab people - but even so ... this technology, though unwelcome to us who have experienced such "intrusion", can be beneficial in fight against these scrotes who cause all law abiding motorists to be menaced by the speed camera on grounds that they cause the KSIs we are all accused of causing!




I know, mate! I-G has commented on the same thread in "News" forum, and WildCat, my wife, passed comment on that very tragic case on her fave forum! And when you read of woman, in defective, uninsured and untaxed car, being fined just £83 for killing someone, because "she was an addict" and the law abider in his road worthy car being fined almost £450 for hitting a tree - it is just sickening!

The chap in dodgy articulated who killed our relative, Ferdl, --- no prison sentence, and a fine which served no justice! My wife's incident was different - chap who hit her was dying when he did so! And we admit - she is one lucky wild cat!

Keep in touch with us, mahali - and let us know how your campaign is doing!


We may be against speed cameras - but that is only thing we are against. We want sensible policing! Speed cameras may not have saved your girl from the poignant description you gave - CCTV may have got a description of the scrotes concerned to work on. Even traffic police may not have been able to prevent it - but their presence on road and threat of being present wherever was and still is a deterrent.

Thanks for that Mad Moggie. I hoipe that your Wife 'wild cat' has made a full physical recovery now although I am sure there are still the emotional scars there.
At the moment my campaign seems to have hit a bit of a lull. There are 238 signatures there at the moment so I desperately need more if the government are going to stand up and take notice. So if there is anyone reading this that hasn't signed yet please go here http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/4549.html
and help us make this change in the law possible. Also please can you all pass it on to everyone in your email address book so as others may take note too.
Thanks again for all of your help guys. It is greatly appreciated.

One of the points that programme raised was the daft sentencing for these idiots!

Wife (Wildy cat) was one of lucky ones - it did take time - but she did recover! Man was taken fatally ill at wheel of his car and hit full throttle. He was increasing speed when he ploughed into her car. She was stationary in jam on motorway - last car and he had unusually clear run at her.

It did take time to recover - and she did miss out on infancy on our three eldest as result of this: Eldest was toddler and twins were just 7 months when it happened. But - fortunately - she mad full recovery, drives car safely and quickly (usually legally ) and drives way too fast for even my liking when we are in Germany And her method of dealing with tailgaters ....

But I do know what it feels like when police come with bad news: you never fully recover from this!

I'm Rebecca and Kirsty Sawyers mam, my family were featured on
real story. My little girl Rebecca was killed by a druggedjoyrider she was
6, Kirsty was flung onto the road out of the back window. People thought
she was a doll lying in the road, she was 18 months at the time. She's
3 now and permanently disabled.

This type of crime is happening more and more. The government are
unconcerned and the judges live in cloud cuckoo land. How many more
innocent children and adults have to be killed this way before something
drastic is done.

Just to remind everyone, the "person" who killed my daughter had a
criminal history from the age of 14, he stole cars, was a joyrider, buglar,
thief , arsonist, and had already killed his friend in a previous accident,
and was let out early from prison (2 years and 8 months) two months later
he was back behind the wheel of a stolen car and destroyed my family.

Forgot to mention he had 2 life driving bans , now 3!!!

Is this a symptom of the reduction of proper detection of these crimes on the road, thanks to the proliferation of PC Gatso and his colleagues??!!