Safe Speed Forums

Some more very good reasons not to go any further down the privatisation road and excellent reasons to start putting more trafpols back on the roads

No, my policy only covers my driving of such vehicles. It doesn't cover an uninsured vehicle parked on the street in Grimsby which I have never set eyes on. If the owner of that vehicle was prosecuted for having no insurance he couldn't claim that it was covered by a mate who had that clause on his policy.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

But the critical question is does that vehicle need insurance unless someone is driving it, or is it only the driver who requires his own insurance?

Think you will find that the RK must have a minimum of third party cover to legally keep said vehicle on road, otherwise RK is committing offence.Perhaps our BIBs will comfirm this.

This is correct if you keep a vehicle on a road then a policy of insurance needs to be in force for it otherwise you can get a ticket. Reminds me of a time a couple of years ago, I went to a street where someone had reported 4 cars with no tax on them got there and was issuing Cle/26 form when someone popped there head out and said to me what the Fu** are you doing, I told him politely what I was doing, after a few verbals I asked him for his insurance,he told me that he didn't need any so I explained again he told me to F**K off so i said produce the insurance within 7 days, guess what £300 fine and 6points he doesnt even answer the door now
Stephen

Surely the extension could well be interpreted to mean the use of a motor vehicle? A strict interpretation of the word 'drive' would therefore leave you uninsured at a set of traffic lights!

Ignoring the new rules with regard to insurance for just a second, if I left my car on the road, and cancelled the insurance, what offence would I be commiting? Surely it wouldn't be 6 points on my licence?

So has anyone ever managed to successfully tax a car using the third party extension of someone who was not the registered keeper?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Was prevented from taxing my present car , untill i got insurance document with reg no on it,as although i was insured to drive any car the registration on the insurance document was not that on the log book.


edit --

From what i've read it now seems that if i park my car on private land after this law comes into force, and according to my understanding of the road traffic act which Steven has confirmed, i do not need insurance, i've committed an offence.
If so soon we'll see the insurance companies holding us to ransom.
What happens to person on short term ban - cant drive, therefore can't legaly insure car,so removes from road .

No, but on fleet insurance there will usually be an extension to cover any car lent to that company. If I lent my friend my car, who is covered on his own business' fleet insurance, it would be fully insured whilst in his possesion, but it does not mean he could tax my car. However, if he stopped to get a paper, is the car still lent to him?

Same idea IMO, i.e. an extension of your policy to cover somone else's car. Of course I'm sure a court could decide if a car left outside the RK house was or wasn't in the possesion of someone else and so covered by their insurance.... an if it was just outside the RK's house I'm sure they would see through any poor attempt to claim the car was insured.

I understand that case law on this allows an insured driver of a car not owned by him and otherwise uninsured will maintain cover for that vehicle while he exits the vehicle to buy some cigarettes and a paper in a shop. I am not clear on the extent of that cover, but I would imagine that if the same person took the car into town and parked it there for the afternoon, it's use would not be covered.


You would be committing the offence of using the vehicle on a road with no insurance.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Thanks for clearing that up, just to make clear I've never actually done that, but just wanted to know out of interest. I knew it was illegal but didn't know whether it would still be the same offence as if the vehicle was driven.

Used to do that a few years ago, mainly thanks to the wording on the actual certificate.


Can't see that being right Ian, although it would certainly be a nice "get out" clause for the insurance companies if something did happen to a vehicle in a supermarket car park that was being used on a 3rd party extension.
If it is the case that someone is not insured for an afternoon's shopping while driving on a 3rd party extension, then the recorded stats of uninsured drivers will go through the roof.


EDIT:
Just checked the wording on the insurance policy for our family car, all it states is that the old lady & myself are covered to "use" any motor vehicle not belonging to us providing we have the owners permission and have a license to drive a vehicle of that class.

Interestingly enough, the traders policy that I have states that myself & any employee are covered in any vehicle that is in my "custody".

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

re-reading this article, am i right in thinking this is not a crackdown on uninsured drivers at all, it's a "crackdown" on anyone who doesn't register their vehicle as offroad when their insurance runs out?

Someone not insured can simply register offroad then claim "his mate barry" was driving with his cover all-policy if a camera picks him up.

like i say, it's a PCN stealth tax on law abiding citizens who have a little lapse.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

I taxed my car on Friday.

with a corporate policy and a letter (to whom it may concern) saying that the corporate policy extends to me and any car I own and use for the purposes of work.

No registration on policy or letter.

No, because in the vast majority of cases the vehicle would already be insured by the registered keeper for being "kept" on a public road.

I would suggest the number of cases where somebody uses a third party extension to drive a vehicle that is not covered by another insurance policy (whether specific or collective) are absolutely minimal. If the vehicle was SORNed then the registered keeper would be committing an offence. If the vehicle was not SORNed but was normally kept off-road, then the registered keeper might just be OK, but would not be able to renew the road tax on the vehicle.


No, because he would be breaking the terms of SORN and so would be committing an offence. It might just be legal as outlined above if Barry was prepared to admit to it and could show details of his third-party extension.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I meant taxed but registered offroad for insurance only, but i forgot no insurace = no tax anyway. You could insure a car for one month to gain 12 months tax though?

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

It'd be interesting to see exactly what the specific wording is on this from different insurance companies.

Three certificates I have been able to lay my hands on - Churchill, Norwich Union and Axa, all say 'drive' rather than 'use' in this context.

Additionally The Association of British Insurers say this


I'd contend that 'use' would permit the 'use' of the car in the supermarket car park by the third party extension user, whereas 'drive' would have the limitation as provided by the case law I alluded to (but can't find )

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

It's a very grey distinction, isn't it? On the face of it, the definition of "drive" seems pretty clear cut, but what if I rang my insurance broker and said "Please insure me to drive to London for a shopping trip tomorrow"? If you did I think you'd reasonably expect to be covered for the full duration of your trip, including the 4 hours it is parked on the street while you shop.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

my bold

I'm trying to imagine those circumstances John...

If you had insurance covering you to drive another car then you probably wouldn't contact the insurance company unless you were concerned that you may not be covered for it's 'use' when not driven, in which case you would give the insurance company much more detail about the type of cover you require.

If as would normally be the case, the car was covered by the owner's insurance there would be no problem with its use while parked.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

I must say the circumstances being discussed here are so unlikely that real-world occasions when they occur are likely to be infinitesimal in number, i.e. that there is a taxed and MoT'd vehicle, that is not currently insured for use on the road, is kept off-road by someone who is not a motor trader, but is occasionally used on the road by someone who is not the registered keeper using their third party extension.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed