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Met traffic chief in speeding row





Oooops!

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

as ianh said ooops

if a chief supt was running late i would imagine the mtg was with the commisioner or someone

Strange thing is most of A12 is DC - I KNOW 82 is a tad OTT but must presume driver is not your average PC .Question is why no blue lights??

i dont think going to a mtg is would be classed as an immediate response

No - but fries ass could be

82 in a 40 isn't just a case of "Oooops" Ian, that is an out & out pisstake no matter who you are.

And why was the driver only "fined & given points"?

If that had been "Joe Public", his (or her) sorry ass would have been banned for that.

Once again, one law for the old bill and one law for us.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Disciplinary leading to dismissal of both officers

our police must be beyond reproach I'm afraid.

Owen should have received a driving ban at least. After all you don't need to be driving a car to get penalties do you...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Yes, that's a correct description of the situation - police drivers are not subject to speed limits when driving on duty. No need for blue lights, answering an emergency call, or anything like that.

If you think they should be subject to speed limits in some or all circumstances, fine, but AIUI this guy was not breaking the law, just as PC Mark Milton may have been guilty of careless or dangerous driving, but wasn't guilty of speeding as such.

Personally I believe it is incumbent on police drivers not to take the piss, but I believe the law is best left as it is.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Thats the problem though.

I would be happy to leave as is...but they abuse the situation.

Its all take and no give.

If the police agressively enforce limits without consideration of circumstance then they should be dismissed if caught doing the same.

If the individual officers don't like that then I suggest that they lobby through the police federation to effect a policy change....or consider their positions.

As a general principle, should police officers be exempt from the law. If you think it is acceptable in the case of speeding then where would you stop? Theft? Rape? Murder?

If you think I am being silly, then take the case of the man shot by mistake when holding the chair leg. The officers were not guilty because they were undertaking their duties which required them to shoot. If they just shot someone in the street while "on duty" because they felt like it they would be murderers. The same with speeding, while on specific duty requiring speeding, then OK; in general absolutely not. Being late for a meeting is not a good enough reason.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Now strangely a slightly different tale in todays mirror

"Mr Owen was late for a meeting when his marked Vauxhall Omega, was said to have hit 86mph in a 50mph zone - , occasionally using its sirens."

http://whatever ] some text here [ /url ]

mirror version

But then not so long ago someone got points for holding up a notice warning drivers of speed trap.Case of sauce for the goose i'd reckon.

We are hoist by our own petard!

Time was when we would be able to go about our legitimate business with little or no interest from the public in the actions of a police car other than perhaps to pass comment on what the car might be attending, or a joke about our pies must be getting cold.

Truth is, that in general we are much more careful now about speed than we have been before, often we would have a run up the motorway at a slightly higher speed, A to exhibit lane discipline, and B to obtain evidence of manner of driving offences (it's always easier watching from behind).
These kind of defences to speeding are being questioned now, and may not either be accepted or believed without other corroborative support.

IMO it hampers and hamstrings our effective policing ability.

Sad really.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

The trouble is though Peter, his driver was convicted of speeding and given 6 points (in circumstances where a member of the public would have been banned), and this was reduced to 3 points on appeal on the grounds that he was an advanced enough driver not to be causing a danger.

This is not only one law for the police, but also extra unwritten laws. Members of the public are not allowed to have their sentences lowered for that reason. The courts only ever consider the number of mph above the limit. In a way, it's good that this has changed in this case, but it appears to be solely because he is a copper, not because his actions were safe for the conditions (which it doesn't seem they were).

The accident was some way ahead of them...

how far?
with sirens...
was someone watching the mirrors for the speeding met officers and failed to see the pedestrian?

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

The fact that the police are exempt from speeding laws, but not, say, from drink-driving laws, demonstrates that the issue of speeding is qualitatively different from most other laws.


If you think shooting someone and speeding are remotely comparable then you are lining up alongside BRAKE, Transport1650 etc. 99+% of the time, speeding is not in any meaningful sense dangerous.

If we had a situation where police officers had to justify every instance of exceeding a speed limit on a case-by-case basis, then I am sure the quality of police response and the morale within the service would plummet.

Personally I really do not think it matters if the police do have a general exemption from speed limits in the course of their duties - but, as I said, it is incumbent on them not to take the piss.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

cut and paste from varios news sources:

The Vauxhall Omega, occasionally using its sirens, was said to have sped along roads in north-east London, once hitting 86mph in a 50mph zone.

Chief Supt Owen said: "The fact is that speeding kills.
Having witnessed first hand the suffering of families whose loved ones have been seriously injured or tragically killed, I would strongly urge all motorists not to speed."


A Scotland Yard spokeswoman said Mr Owen had accepted a written warning from its Directorate of Professional Standards for "failing to challenge the manner in which a Pc drove a police car in which he was a passenger".

Earlier this year, Mr Owen's driver, Pc Mark Bradley, successfully appealed against a court's decision to hand him a six-point penalty over the incident.


The penalty was reduced to three points.

According to Scotland Yard, the speeding incident took place on the A12 in east London and came to light because of the unrelated accident in which a pedestrian was killed after being knocked down by a white van.

The accident happened some distance ahead of the two officers, who were swiftly on the scene, police said. But because they were in the area of the crash Scotland Yard conducted its own internal inquiry.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

but thats an inevitable backlash of government and polices own policies. If we're all supposed to believe a responcible, skilled and diligent car driver automatically and assuredly becomes a killer menace by just a small incriment in speed then surely the same thought process will be used by the public in regard to the police. who of course become noticably 'fast' because they're speeding past queues of motorists nowadays nervously speedo-watching.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction