Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sat Jun 27, 2026 22:45

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 02:18 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... dcam31.xml

Postcode lottery of speed camera fines

By David Millward, Transport Correspondent
(Filed: 31/12/2005)

Drivers caught speeding and jumping red lights are far more likely to be prosecuted in some areas than others, figures showed yesterday.

Details obtained by The Daily Telegraph indicate that a speed camera lottery has evolved, with some forces more than twice as likely to fine offenders.

The accounts of 35 safety camera partnerships showed that in some areas more than half of those drivers caught escaped automatic fines and points on their licence, while elsewhere every offender was punished.

Supporters and opponents of speed cameras united last night to condemn the inconsistency of enforcement. They said it raised questions over a key part of the Government's road safety policy.

"The message needs to be the same for drivers in all areas," said a spokesman for Brake, the road safety charity, which backs speed cameras.

Paul Smith, of Safespeed, one of the most vociferous critics of cameras, said: "This is a great cause for concern. We have lost control of the entire system."

Hailed by the Government as a vital weapon in its drive to bring down road deaths, the speed camera is regarded by some as little more than a cash cow designed to extract money from motorists.

Chris Grayling, the Tory transport spokesman, said the figures further exposed the Government's speed camera strategy.

"It has become clear in recent weeks that they are being used as a stealth tax and not for road safety purposes," he said.

"Now we know they are not even being enforced properly and this is making a mockery of the argument that they are an important tool in reducing casualties. It is time that speed cameras were used properly and consistently."

Whitehall figures showed that when drivers crossed into neighbouring counties they ran a significantly higher risk of punishment.

Almost one in four caught in South Yorkshire were not fined despite being warned of intended prosecution. But in neighbouring West Yorkshire fines and penalty points were imposed on every culprit.

Other partnerships to act against 100 per cent of motorists were Bedfordshire and Luton, Cheshire, Hertfordshire, Humberside, Kent and West Mercia.

While London was the only partnership to take action against less than half of offenders, several others appear to have decided not to prosecute a significant proportion.

In Greater Manchester, only 53 per cent received fixed penalty notices, while in the West Midlands the proportion was 59 per cent.

The lower prosecution rate in urban areas is believed to reflect a higher proportion of unregistered cars and foreign-owned cars, which makes tracking them down difficult.

About one in four in North Wales escaped fines, despite the tough line on speeding taken by Richard Brunstrom, the chief constable.

Many vehicles travelling through the area are driven by tourists - often Irish motorists using Holyhead ferries.

The discrepancies between prosecution rates can also be accounted for by some partnerships preferring speed awareness courses to fines.

The Transport Department said the figures could also be affected by motorists challenging the notice of intended prosecution or emergency vehicles caught on camera.

Difficulties in enforcement are known to have been exacerbated by inaccuracies in the number plate recognition databases used to identify offending motorists.

The Home Office admitted this year that information held by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency was only 40 per cent correct, while the records of the Police National Computer were only 79 per cent accurate.

Image

The quote, attributed to me, isn't accurate. We discussed untraceable vehicles and agreed that the number was increasing. We (national we) don't really know how bad it has got, but when untraceable vehicles reach 20% or so effective control of the system will have been lost.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 03:17 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Safe Speed issued the following PR at 01:55 this morning:

PR274: 'Post code lottery' warns of serious problems

news: for immediate release

The Daily Telegraph today highlights marked disparities in speed camera
'conversion rates' from notices to fines in different parts of the country.

It is noticeable that London and Manchester - large urban areas - have the
poorest conversion rates. Safe Speed believes that this is indicative of the
numbers of untraceable vehicles in use in these areas.

The quote attribute to Paul Smith in the Telegraph is not accurate.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "The problem that concerns me here, as
highlighted by these figures, is that people are finding themselves better off
outside the law. If your vehicle is not properly registered, then you are
close to immune from speeding, parking and congestion charge fines. While the
public perceives these fines as onerous, more and more people are deliberately
neglecting proper vehicle registration. This is one important factor in the
low 'conversion rates' in certain areas of the country."

"If this trend continues - and while we Police by camera and computer it will
- the risk is that we will lose control of the entire vehicle registration
process. We are not far away from such a situation already. A professional
bailiff, talking with me on Talksport Radio earlier in the year. told me that
of 100 congestion charge non-payment follow ups, 99 were untraceable. This is
already the reality of policing by camera and computer, and it can only get
worse."

"The vast majority of responsible citizens should feel that registering their
vehicles will be a benefit and not a curse. Policing by camera and computer
simply does not and will not work - too many people just find their own
individual ways of working around the system."

"The only answer is to Police the roads properly. We need to get Police out
from behind their desks and statistical returns and put them on the roads
again looking for all manner of bad driving. It's part of the proven formula
that gave us the safest roads in the world in the first place."

<ends>

Notes for editors
=================


Article in today's (Saturday's) Daily Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... dcam31.xml

Associated image:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphic ... dcam31.gif

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 05:32 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
The figures they are using are complete bollox anyway.

There is no way any force is getting a 100% (or more in Cumbria) conversion rate. It's just not possible.

[added] I see they have chosen to omit Cumbria's figures. We know why they've done that. But why have they kept the other obviously false figures?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 05:37 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Homer wrote:
The figures they are using are complete bollox anyway.

There is no way any force is getting a 100% (or more in Cumbria) conversion rate. It's just not possible.


The figure pair are NIPs and FPNs. Not paid FPNs. (That's another story.)

The forces scoring 100% are sending out combined NIP/FPN forms.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:20 
Offline
User

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 18:58
Posts: 306
Location: LanCA$Hire ex Kendal
Homer wrote:
[added] I see they have chosen to omit Cumbria's figures. We know why they've done that. But why have they kept the other obviously false figures?


Cumbria shown as n/a because their figures are, as you rightly say Homer, complete rubbish. CSCP claim on their Dft form to have sent out 661 NIP's but issued 35,233 FPN's.

JJ, if you are still allowed to view this site/still working for CSCP, please explain your figures.

_________________
That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Wigan coach - updated 20/4/06!!).


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 15:08 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 13:36
Posts: 1339
kendalian wrote:
Cumbria shown as n/a because their figures are, as you rightly say Homer, complete rubbish. CSCP claim on their Dft form to have sent out 661 NIP's but issued 35,233 FPN's.


:?

Does anyone have even a wild guess as to how this could happen?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 16:51 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Zamzara wrote:
kendalian wrote:
Cumbria shown as n/a because their figures are, as you rightly say Homer, complete rubbish. CSCP claim on their Dft form to have sent out 661 NIP's but issued 35,233 FPN's.


:?

Does anyone have even a wild guess as to how this could happen?


Yes. They send out combined NIPs/FPNs for most offences and NIPs (before summons) for offences that they consider extreme.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 18:06 
Offline
User

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 21:00
Posts: 73
Location: Plymouth
That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Bradford coach).

Do you think they have aready started with the "HIGHWAY CODE BOOK" ?
:?

As far as I can see road saftey has been burned at the stake of CASHFLOW :twisted:

_________________
Brian of Plymouth
When will the government realise , that to err is only human, to be perfect is to be GOD.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 18:47 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 16:34
Posts: 923
Location: UK
Homer wrote:
There is no way any force is getting a 100% (or more in Cumbria) conversion rate. It's just not possible.


It is if they send out more NIP's one month then the FPN's are paid (or issued) the following month.

Gareth


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 18:58 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:01
Posts: 4815
Location: Essex
g_attrill wrote:
Homer wrote:
There is no way any force is getting a 100% (or more in Cumbria) conversion rate. It's just not possible.


It is if they send out more NIP's one month then the FPN's are paid (or issued) the following month.

Gareth


Agreed, but not month after month after month. <Alf Garnett mode> There has to be some regression, I mean... </Alf>


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 21:52 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
g_attrill wrote:
Homer wrote:
There is no way any force is getting a 100% (or more in Cumbria) conversion rate. It's just not possible.


It is if they send out more NIP's one month then the FPN's are paid (or issued) the following month.

Gareth


The figures for West Yorks were exactly the same number of NIPs to FPNs every quarter.

If they follow the system correctly then they should issue a NIP initially and not issue a FPN until the driver is identified.

I know some forces issue combined NIP and FPN but can they do this in a case where the speed is in excess of the FPN threshold?

SafeSpeed wrote:
Zamzara wrote:
kendalian wrote:
Cumbria shown as n/a because their figures are, as you rightly say Homer, complete rubbish. CSCP claim on their Dft form to have sent out 661 NIP's but issued 35,233 FPN's.


:?

Does anyone have even a wild guess as to how this could happen?


Yes. They send out combined NIPs/FPNs for most offences and NIPs (before summons) for offences that they consider extreme.


If that was the case they would have more NIPs than FPNs, Cumbria have vastly more FPNs than NIPs. The only ways would be to count roadside stop FPNs or to be prosecuting for a large number of offences per NIP.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.025s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]