Safe Speed Forums

I've been playing around with this in my mind:



Speeding is commonplace and harmless.
Inappropriate speed is rare and dangerous.
Attacking speeding doesn't hit the target - inappropriate speed.

Perhaps it could be extended to tell the story about lawless or grossly irresponsible behaviours as well.

Thoughts?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It needs to show that inappropriate speed is not necessarily in excess of the posted limit.

Perhaps a series of concentric circles representing DANGER, with the "splat" targets of speeding and inappropriate speed showing how far off target the attack on speeding is compared to other issues?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I think it already does; some of the 'inappropriate' area falls outside of the 'speeding' area (I hope I interpreted that correctly).

edit:
You could also add a large circle denoting ‘dangerous driving’ around the ‘inappropriate’ circle, with another ‘speed enforcement effectiveness’ circle intersecting a small area of these.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I've mocked up a quick diagram - it needs to show that other causes are being missed, and shouldnt show the centre speed so prominently!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I'm not ready to move towards the target thing yet. It might one day be useful as a communications device. But I'm still trying to get a proper grip on the sets.

This is the latest:

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Cracking idea
Whilst earnests target is more visual. It endorses the posted speed limit as "the target"

Inappropriate speed should be red with legs (archery target) , posted limit should be almost off the page in green Smaller scope, way off target.

Drink drive should be on the page... car/target decorated with 4 pint glasses and two wine glasses?



Edit: something like...

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

There's too many people driving at inappropriate speeds on local roads to call it rare. Not that most of them are breaking the speed limit, so of course it's perfectly 'safe'.

Perhaps you need a circle for "speeding", another circle for "not speeding" and one for "inappropriate speed" that intersects the two but is about two-thirds in the "not speeding" circle.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

This overall concept is a great idea as a presentational tool. But - be very careful about the relative sizes of the various "sets" - whilst people who know what such diagrams represent will know that size means nothing (unless you draw one inside another to to show a "subset"), all sorts of people will drawing all sorts of erroneous conclusuins from circle size, and take up lots of time arguing about it! (Unless you can really make circle size represent real figures and back them up)

I think that is the direction to go in.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Perhaps you need to follow the proper procedure for the construction of such a diagram? How about defining your set and subsets for a start? It is then normal to establish the relationships between them, before constructing the diagram. Especially, as in this case as it is clearly your intention to add weight to your argument by scaling and adjusting the position of the sets; how are you then going to justify that quantitative assessment? The methodology being discussed in this thread is just the sort of research approach of which Safespeed has been criticised. Rather than shed any light on an important issue, it casts a shadow on Safespeed's methods and gives opponents cause to dismiss what maybe a very valid point. Safespeed cannot continue to persue its agenda in this way AND gain credence for its claims.

I was going to suggest something similar to this, but was getting a bit wary of become resident picky academic! However, remember that this is intended to be a "presentational" tool, and as such, needs to defensible rather than scientifically rigorous in the strict sense.

Excuse me, but that's exactly what I'm doing.

The first diagram is clear enough. It contains sets for {speeding} and {inappropriate speed} and the overlapping set for {#1} <cap> {#2}.

The next question is: what other sets might it be useful to include?

I'm not considering the Venn diagram as a presentational tool at this stage. I'm using it to visualise and define the sets. Which is why I wrote at 3:26 this morning: But I'm still trying to get a proper grip on the sets.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I have no problem with the generation of presentational tools, my point is that they MUST be defensible. The whole argument is damaged, whatever its merits, by the use of flawed presentation in any form.

It's clearly biased.

What set are the two sets {speeding} and {inappropriate speed} subsets?

Perhaps you should consider which other subsets, of the set you haven't yet defined, CAN be included, not what 'might be useful'. A more rigorous approach required especially as




Then you'll need to deal with the question and define carefully what set the two sets {speeding} and {inappropriate speed} are subsets?

Look pal, I've posted a undeveloped original idea to a forum for discussion. I haven't published it to the web site. I haven't sent it to newspapers.

I know with absolute certainty the the speeding set is massively larger than the inapproproate speed set. Nothing else has been defined.

It is quite ridiculous to talk about 'flawed presentation' at this stage in the development of a new view of the problem.

The content of any such diagram (and the relatives of the diagram) are entirely a matter of definition. It can include or exclude anything at all, if to do so proves useful for understanding or presentation. I've made no firm definitions, and I may never do so.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'll take that as to infer my review was unwelcome.

Oh right. That's good, a retraction.

Not really. Your 'review' was inappropriate for the stage of development of an idea.



It's not a retraction. What ever makes you think I'd made a firm definition?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Calm down all!

As Paul said, it's only an idea at this stage.

Might I suggest that it's obvious what the superset is - is it not {speed} - the others such as {exceeding limit}, {excessive speed} etc etc must all be subsets of that. As Paul as has also said {excessive speed} does have an intersection with {exceeding limit} but both that (by definition) and {excessive speed} are much smaller than {exceeding limit}. There *may* be other relevant subsets of {speed}? For example {inappropriate speed} of which {excessive speed} is a subset, but so would {excessively slow speed}

I actually think it *would* make a very good presentational tool, which done with care would also be defensible

Clearly it is so far, but that's not to say that the optimal superset is {speed}. I've been looking at supersets like {road risks} too, but have so far found nothing immediately useful.



At present, for me, it's an 'aid to thought' - no more than that. I have high hopes that it might develop into a useful series of presentation tools. And I quite agree that it could and should develop into something 'defensible'.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety