Safe Speed Forums

Two things that puzzle me, as I mull this prosecution business:

1: If nicked by a static camera you are NIPped and given evidence/statements stating that the Scam bods believe you to have been doing a certain speed on a certain date and time in a certain place. If they summons you to court, are you defending yourself against the accusation of doing that particular speed, or of being over the given limit per se? So if you can prove you were doing 42 rather than the 48, let's say, that they accuse you of (or simply prove that their figure is reasonably questionable), do you walk from court a free man or a man nicked for doing 42mph?

2: What is the cutoff point between conditional fixed penalty offer and sumons to court, in the case of an alleged speeding offence in a 30mph zone?

Hmm... any answers?

You are being done for exceeding the speed limit. As long as they can show you were exceeding that then you are done for. The ACPO guides are meaningless as far as the law is concerned.


It's about 22mph over the 30mph limit in most cases.

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It's Champion Man

Yup - Chumps - Cannot disagree with your reply here.


Will admit that I have never pulled anyone for up to 6 mph above limit - unless given some sign that something else was amiss in the driving style.

Prosecution when have pulled - used common sense about it.

Unfortunately - the speed cam does not have same common sense - and guidelines are just guidelines - not Law. Some scamerati adhere and some - unfortunately - do not.

I'm guessing that if you could make their speed figure look dodgy without introducing one of your own you might be okay. But as has already been said, if your defense is to prove that your speed was lower but still illegal you might just as well have signed a confession. If you were in court accused of an airport bullion robbery, your brief probably wouldn't want your alibi to be that you were robbing a bookies in Clapham at the time.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Thanks for the advice. Basically, I have to take a slapping in this case, as the pictures rendered clearly show the car I'm driving travelling at somewhere in the 40s in a 30mph zone. Does rather surprise me as pretty uncharacteristic behaviour on my part. But then, twas 11.45pm at the end of an 18-hour day and 400 miles at the wheel of a car I'd never driven before. Which is rather quicker than mine. A week before my wedding, so my head was full of other stuff. Didn't know the camera was there, and nothing on the road, no houses, dogs, kids, bikes, peds etc. It's urban, but not residential so none of the IAM-tutored hazards present. Och well...

In principle I have no problem with being brought to book. After all, I was speeding. Sure, my Police friends in the area say there's no way they'd nick me as no danger to public or self presented. But, as you point out, cameras are merely machines.

The annoying thing about this is that I have been accused of the figure given by the radar, rather than after analysis of the pics. Originally I was convinced I was way under the given figure (51mph), but having sent my father down to the site yesterday armed with a tape measure I discover the road markings there are 2 metres apart. As far as I can tell from the pics my speed is around 45-46mph. But it's a dark green car, the images have a distinct dark green tinge and all you can really see is the silver of the wheels and the red of the tail lights. Try as I might I can't get 51mph out of the pictures, although the Plod bod (one PC P1109 Twentyman, in case anyone needs to look out for this fool's handiwork in the future) attached to the Scam people managed to, and signed a statement to this effect. I distinctly believe his work to be sloppy and he really does need to learn how to use a ruler. But then, I don't have to wake up every morning realising I am him. Personally I can be proud of my work because I do it properly and am rather good at it.

Still, this is immaterial. I was over the 30mph limit and shall have therefore to plead guilty as charged. Shall do it by post so at least I can spend the day working to earn a bit of the fine, and enclose a polite letter pointing out that Twentyman's work is distinctly rubbish and that personally am hardly motoring's Saddam Hussein (or Bush, for that matter) in the hopes that the magistrate treads lightly on my license and bank balance. That'll be one more social menace dealt with, then...

Writman, sorry to hear about your situation.

Why throw the towel in though? If you feel you can discredit the Police evidence then you should plead NOT GUILTY!

If they've NIP'd you at 51 mph and the pics show this is wrong you should call PC Twentyman (IN PERSON) and challenge him in the witness box.

Remember the Scammers are after our money and easy hits, they dont like anyway daring to disagree with their findings. It's amazing how many times challenging the Scammers leads to a case being dropped - there's too much money at stake, from the naive who meekly hand over their licences for 3 points, to worry about the occasional person who stands up for their rights in English Law (sorry Paul, or Scottish Law), to challenge any allegation made against them.

Good luck anyway!

Well, if I thought that discrediting Twentyman's reading of the pics would cause the case to be thrown out I'd happily call the little idiot and ask him to practise his geometry in court. But the fact of the matter is, I was still speeding and will walk from court with a pointy license and a bill.

Being self-employed in a horribly tight-assed industry, time really is money. So I figure I'll be better off writing a nice polite statement of my side of things and sitting up in the office while they do their thing. At least I'll be earning a portion of my fine that way, and won't have to do a 260-odd mile round trip to Worcester.

The next time I'm in that fair city, naturally, I can find out where the sloppy-practicing berk lives and firebomb his house without undue cost to myself. Or something. Ho hum...

Many thanks for the best wishes. My aim isn't to avoid taking a rap for being a bad boy. I'm part of the motoring press and I think it would be irresponsible to avoid my obligations. Hypocritical in fact, as I am increasingly an advocate of safe road use and driver education. On the Twentyman front, I simply abhor dishonesty and slack practice. Just as I won't let the local TV licence man through the door for his abuse of language. We don't have a TV, so he came round to tell me he was here to "help you with your licence, sir". I don't need his help, unless he wants to assist me with target practice should I take up archery.