Safe Speed Forums

(From one of the regulars...)

The reason the drivers brake when they see the camera is simply because that's what you do when you see a speed camera.

It has no basis in logic and little in road safety, but it's purely in psychology. The camera is a threat, and when seen unexpectedly it evinces an almost instinctive reaction of slowing down.

Here's an analogy:

Let's assume we're good friends and have a reasonable degree of trust in each other. One night we're sat in the pub and I say "don't worry I won't hit you" and then feign a punch at your face, pulling it up four inches short. You duck out of the way. I ask "Don't you trust me?" and you agree that you do. So I do the same again and again you duck out of the way, even though you know full well I'm not going to hit you. After about half a dozen attempts we can reach a stage where I can feint a punch at you and you can sit and watch it without flinching, but it is a real trial for you to do so any you aren't really comfortable. And if I wait ten minutes and repeat the exercise I get the original reaction.

It's just the same with speed cameras. Logic tells me that I am observing and obeying the speed limit, but in the split second we have to react we don't react on logic we react according to instinct, and instinct tells us to BRAKE!.

CSCP have just installed some digital cameras on a single carriageway section of the A590. I go past them a few times each week. I know they are there and I usually latch my cruise control in so that I know for sure I'm not going to accidentally speed past them (it's a typically good section of improved road with open sightlines where 100mph would be pretty safe in the right conditions). But the two things I notice are that firstly I feel very uncomfortable passing them even though I KNOW my speed is legal, and secondly that most other motorists slow to about 40mph while they drive past them. It might be wrong, it might be illogical, but it's still "real life".

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Of course the said driver would – I know I would!
However, that’s not the point. When on approach to a GATSO, one of my friends will be at the limit. Regular as clockwork, he will slow down just before he reaches the enforcement area, usually to an indicated 35. Sad but true!


go get yourself a tall frosty one (assuming you’re not on the job)

Stating the obvious?

But WHY are they braking when they see the camera! CO's & mpaton's point.

Is it because they are unaware of their speed or because they are knowingly exceeding the limit. You are not trying to tell me that people doing on a stretch brake just because they see a camera.

It is NOT a conditioned response, it requires a set of perameters to be in place. Either knowledge or fear of being caught, but most morons don't anticipate and slowdown if required & back off to maintain the required speed, they just yank on the anchors - overcompensating and chug past well under the trigger speed (upto 20mph under). Fools!

They brake for confidence and licence preservation. Think about it.

You spot a camera. Are you 100% certain that you haven't missed a speed limit sign? Better slow down to be on the safe side.

You spot a camera. Are you 100% certain that your speed hasn't drifted over the limit? If you check your speedo, it might be too late to slow in time for the camera, so many brake first and check their speedo second.

Note that in the two circumstances above people don't even need to be speeding...

One of the very nasty things about cameras is that they hand out a severe punishment for a minor mistake. And yes, 25% of your driving licence (minimum!) is a very severe punishment.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

To be fair though, I can understand why people do it at mobile sites. With fixed cameras, you know exactly where enforcement is taking place. You haven't got a clue with a mobile speed camera, particularly if it's a nasty one which is hidden away.

I merely repeat my previous post: "Essex, there are some abysmal signage (or lack of) and we have had speed limit reductions that have had nothing to do with safety but with planning issues.

As such it is difficult on certain roads to be 100% aware of what the limit is, so there is a lot of panic braking when people see a camera 'just in case', it seems to be worse where they have been buggering about with 30 & 40 limits."

If in an area there is ambiguity regards speed limits - poor signage, obscured signage, changing limits etc. It's not surprising that there is this moment of doubt and again refering to Essex, a lot of the cameras DO NOT meet the rules regards visability, most are only visible when it's too late to slow down gradually, hence a panic brake/deceleration.

I have noted in a previous thread the similarity in some camera sites and good sites to conduct an ambush from. How relevant is that to panic breaking at cameras ???

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Sorry, there are three other reasons.

c) the speed limit fluctuations are sufficiently often that they are unsure what the numerical posted limit is for where they are (even though, for the conditions, they may well be safe), so they brake to be at or below any possible posted limt.

d) They have, for whatever reason, had to focus on real hazards for the last 10 - 15 seconds, and they may for a second or so be unaware of their numerical speed, and decide it may be better to shoot (at the brake pedal) first and ask questions later.

e) To take the pi$$ and form a deliberately slow procession past the camera.


It could be both if the speed is really excessive

f) To inform drivers behind that a speed camera is present.

And I think your c) needs extending. On occasion I know very well what the speed limit is, but 'knowing very well' isn't something I'd bet 25% of my driving licence on. I have to be absolutely certain that I haven't missed a sign - and how do you know if you have missed a sign?

Sometimes, therefore, people brake to be on the safe side, driving licence-wise.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

another item for the list:

g) A lot of people are not aware that there is a tolerance of 10%+2 mph and think they will get 3 points and a £60 fine if they exceed the limit by even 1mph, so they slow down to be sure they are well under the limit. The speed limit should be on the back of the camera and it should be well publicised that there is a tolerance band to minimise this problem.

But then you'd get people driving right at the tolerance limit and then the situation would occur over and over again - don't forget the vast majority of drivers who pass speed cameras are 'regulars'

I totally agree with Paul and and JT - its just what people do when they see the camera. It has become a conditioned response. The truth is that you dont know your exact speed at any given time without a glance at the speedo. Sure you have a good idea, probably within a few MPH +\- but am I doing 50 or 53 ? So its brake first check speedo ok on we go. I see it every day and it has caused many a shunt.

i did have 2 many last night



i would agree semitone if cameras were a new thing, but as we all know they have been around for quite a while now, and subsequently the majority of the driving public know you can creep up to 35mph and be ok

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now retired

Well now if they start hiding cameras again the problem is going to get worse by many orders of magnitude

You know because you're a camera operator and I suspect most of the people who visit these forums know about the ACPO guidlines. Now go and ask any of your friends/relatives who drive a car but who have little or no interest in cars or driving. I would be surprised if any of them are aware - I bet most of them think you will get nicked for +1mph.

test post

what the fudge - is it just my PC that has got the formatting of the last posts completely wrong?

This reminds me of a drive a little while ago in an area I had never driven (last lived there aged 13 and had never returned), the road between Thetford and Norwich (A14 I think). This has to be the worst A road in the UK, it has a huge number of speed cams, a massive number of limit changes and very few of the limits seem to apply to the road conditions, being both too high and too low in places.

I was absolutely sure I was on an NSL stretch driving at 45-50 (60 would have been dangerous even though traffic was light) when I see a Speed Camera sign, followed by an electronic sign which flashed up “SLOW DOWN!!” as I approached, so what did I do, what would you do? I was sure I was under the speed limit (last observed sign was an NSL on a single carriage way) But there was a speed camera sign, and an electronic sign telling me to slow down.

I had already had around 10-15 miles of ever changing speed limits and various cameras so my concentration was getting strained, I was getting ever more stressed and suddenly I was being accused (by the electronic sign) of going too fast when I was sure I was some 10-15 mph under the limit. Sorry, I don’t have the skill for that, I braked. There was no camera (merely the threat), I kept looking for a limit sign and at my speedo, and for a camera and luckily managed to keep enough of my eye and concentration on the road to see a junction up ahead from which a car had just pulled out, a junction and car that I would probably would have observed some 3-5s earlier in better conditions. Just after the junction I see the NSL sign again.

I asked my wife to take particular interest on the way back and she confirmed that there was no change in limit but the sign did flash “SLOW DOWN!!” to traffic travelling below the limit, and although there was speed camera signs there were no camera.

I will not be going back.

no mine is out as well

I fixed it by editing this post: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 8332#68332 . Nothing was visible and I changed no characters. There must have been something malformed about it - maybe an embedded control character of some sort.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

CamOp hasn't yet mastered the [quote] system, perhaps he was still the worse for wear when he posted?

Reasons I can think of...

I don't trust radar/laser speed registration devices and would like a large difference beetwn the limit and the speed I am driving at to make it easier to prove that I wasn't speeding when looking at the photos/etc.
Especially true with laser devices, the lower you are going the less any slip error is going to affect the reading.

You're driving along a road with a 40+ limit. There are street lights. Although you know the last "regulaly spaced" (ha!) repeater sign you saw said 40 when you see the camera you can not see any limit signs anywhere. Did you miss one that said 30? How can you be sure?

A black box on a tripod is not "highly visible" - no time to check speed, brake hard now!

Gatsos at night are more or less invisible (or, don't look important/blend in to background) uneless they are reflective. I know of only three reflective ones arount here, all in highly visible places anyway. Ones by trees and lots of signs? Not reflective.

Braking turns on lights, to warn other drivers that there is a danger.

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Andrew.