ndp wrote:
Not just out of piste, but out of resort
So where do you like to ski?
Have been to a number of places – and I do join my Swiss cousins in cross-country and so on.
But you always have and need a guide
– the Swiss have a nasty habit of charging you for rescues if you were at fault
(am fortunate
and unfortunate
in having a certain “riff
raff” element related to me… They are jolly useful when it comes to “holidays” though
)
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me wrote:
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But in any case - you lose a ski in slalom and I believe the breakages are just a bit on the very severe side. (Cousin of mine - Wildy's sister - competed in this sport as youngster.)
Of course, but as I say it’s limiting the risks. You never remove the risk.
But as Kriss tells me (she took a bronze in her event once because someone else fell) - the skiers start to adjust and decelerate as they near the end of the run – as colliding with netting hurts…
Me wrote:
But in general - most drivers assess and gauge traffic and speed well enough to negotiate and blend in the flow of traffic. We do this when walking in a crowd or cycling or riding en groupe as well. Humans have this extraordinary brain/eye/hand/body co-ordination skill and as we gain expertise and practice - so it sharpens.
ndp wrote:
Of course, and that’s why accidents are rare and random.
And precisely why claiming a speed camera will stop accidents or even change behaviour is such an absurd claim.
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IG wrote:
But fining jay-walkers - no one complains in the countries (including some USA states) - and why would environmentalists be up in arms about fining jay walkers who saunter and moon walk across roads. I'd be inclined to serve these moon walkers and deliberate dawdlers in the road with an ASBO, as this loitering is really what it is...
Alas, the merits of their arguments are neither here nor there in democracy. Its simply whose voice is loudest.
Their democracy has been in favour of this. It stops silly accidents and explains why less pedestrians and cyclists are killed on the roads. Continental countries have many more road traffic accidents than here overall per their statistics – and Germany appears to show greater proportion of incidents in the former GDR due to really awful roads and badly trained pre-unification drivers, coupled with drivers from other equally badly trained former Soviet controlled drivers. Cobbled streets also play their part – and significantly there are some emerging worries that people underestimate danger in the very low speed areas.
IG wrote:
Jay -walking is different. It is a form of anti-social behaviour - if a deliberate act of trying to force traffic to stop.
Well yes, if it is.[/quote]
There is no “if” – If the person deliberate steps out into the road and moon walks – that is “anti-social”
Apart from that - I do not deliberately get under someone else’s feet when walking in shops or anywhere else – and I do hold doors for people. It’s called courtesy and consideration to others.
Causing someone to alter course by deliberately getting in the way is just downright rude behaviour.
If they do so in front of moving vehicles including bicycles and horses – plain dangerous ::banghead: as well as stupid and irresponsible.
The fact that Swiss. Germans, Austrians, some Americans States and a couple of other European countries fine for this promote responsible and safe behaviour by all.
It is certainly no less fair than fining a driver and potentially removing his livelihood and giving him a record if he appeared before magistrates over four marginal blips for which police would use a better and more rounded professional judgement
What’s good for the goose
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Of course it - and we also play fair when dealing with incidents involving cyclists - and we do know what the "cyclists who have never heard of Cycle Craft of Highway Code or any internet site" do at red lights and one ways....
There seems to be a double standard here
What double standard?
We would do any one who ignores a red light.
Just because they are on a bike does not matter. Jump a red and you are clearly in breach of the law – whatever you are driving or riding.
The double standard apples when cyclists tell me a driver should be fined for this
– yet it’s OK for them to do so.
Nope.
We do fine people here – for running reds and behaving like
dangerous half wits.
Bit of a myth that we don’t ….But at least – people know exactly why they were told off or prosecuted – and for this reason – we appear to beget respect from all.
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If an experienced driver knows that a certain speed is safe for the circumstances he would be very unlikely to be affected by misapplied policing.
(From
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speeding.html )
Now I appreciate that (presumably) Paul wrote that and not yourself, but should cyclists be able to pass through red signals, or cycle against a one-way street if they know its safe without "being affected by misapplied policing"?
Big difference – if a cyclist amber gambles – they have not the acceleration power and one-way streets? All drivers and other riders expect and PEDESTRIANS expect the traffic to be approaching from one direction.
Speed – they can judge within reason – but if a traffic signal is on green for an approaching car and some idiot goes through on a red – moving traffic offence, careless and dangerous driving are things we will go for
– and I can think of any number of public order charges to ban a cyclist to rights over this and provide sufficient ammo for CPS to hold water
Have done so in the past and can do so again.
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Not that anyone ever knows anything of course - they only think they know.
They know “red means stop and No Entry means NO!” and that there is a greater degree of danger in this than blipping over a speed limit and being able to stop safely in distance they can see to be clear.
Bit COAST drivers and cyclists have more self-respect and pride in their drives and rides to do this.
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Decent cycle facilities? Or the crappy 1.3m cycle lanes that run in the gutter with the drains, deteriorating surface and such? Or the off road paths with the bumbling pedestrians, broken glass, and giveaway lines at every junction if you're lucky, or at every private access if you're not?
Oh - if you want awful cycle lanes - I gather the Mad Doc has locked his "Stag" horns with some bloke in his local Council over the ones in the Lakes. Gather the firm commissioned to do the paint job wanted the instruction in written triplicate before they started.
Sure some are dreadful and so badly planned by road planners that one wonders if whoever designed them has half a brain cell.
Some of it is certain groups insisting there should be a cycle lane, or tokenism from developers or whatever. The engineers (usually) know when they're not up to task, but don't necessarily get the final say. [/quote]
Of course there are targets – why some of these lanes are a sick joke and those responsible should be strung up over it. But then again – you are up against these same town hall twits who decide speed limits, humps and so on because “it’s political correctness for them to do so”
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Most of the problems is about trying to do things on the cheap - camera preoccupation is one of them
The vast majority of remedial measures don't involve cameras, so I don't think that statement isn't especially fair.
Perhaps – but then it seems to be the case in many areas these days – and certainly not enough attention is paid to other areas of road safety. Besides - we had a most unfair press over our little blip and opur stance on the subject of pratnerships...and even though we had a "bad" year for crashes - we still had less than the places wioththe cameras a= - and still do ...
We are trying to reduce them further - we have a little headache with middle aged wannabe Hell's Angels though...
in one little area...
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It's called wasting our money and I may get my salary courtesy of Joe the Public Tax Payer - but at least I try to earn it by delivering the sort of service required - and this per my colleague West Mercia's CC in a press interview - means being accountable, accessible and visible
Of course, its all very well highlighting waste as an issue - but what do you do about it?
As stewards of taxpayer’s cash – we have an obligation to provide a value for money service. In some ways – we deliver here by prudent down to earth deployment of staff and expenses and no gimmicks – such as “recipe books for doughnuts and – er – a guidebook telling me I must refer to some pals of mine (one right short crust tub of lard
- and one – more than a bit tall
and he does look a sight on my 70s icon bike (my trusty Chopper of my early teens)) as “height challenged”
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Besides .. 33 mph - a non-starter as cambers and tyres affect speed fluctuate and no human can keep steady - try a freewheel on a bike on a downward gradient. It picks up speed very gradually. Also speedos are not that accurate. You do not nit pick over silly blips - makes bad law and bad justice. Common sense applies and we do allow a fair tolerance and we judge on what is actually seen.
Whilst that is true, it is important to recognise that the speed limit is a limit, and nothing more. You don't have to drive at 30 in a 30, indeed its a good idea to drive a little slower than the limit to largely (though obv not entirely) ensure that any upward drifts don't exceed the limit (and if they do they do so to a lesser degree).
But we have roads with limits higher than 30 mph and motorways – very easy to exceed on a simple overtake – simply to get out of trouble.
We judge accordingly as drivers. But it does not matter how fast or slowly a driver drives - the other road user still has to judge a speed of approach and only cross or move to a primary when it is safe to do so. Thus all parties have a responsibility to COAST it.
Most COAST drivers will be blipping up to 3 under and over as constant.
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The roads I have in mind - have no hazards.
No road has no hazards
I can name one near here – no residents, no crossings and very slight bends.
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Yet there is a 50 mph road which is residential around here ....
Well there are shades of residential - even sections of the A1 have residential frontage
Like the A6 and A19 and A55… when they run though towns – but when they enter the rural or have motorways status for some distance…. (A1 M/A57 (M) etc.
These are main trunk backbone roads, which link the networks when all’s said and done. But I am talking of a road which has houses on each side and one school and some shops – and another road – 30 mph and field on each side…field where cattle graze and barbed wired and wooden fences and hedge-grows prevent straying animals – and the open plan NSL with the suicidal sheep….
and never underestimate the dangers of a "road kill" on this one. Matter of more than mint sauce...
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I can't comment on the specific examples you give, I don't know the roads. But it is important that limits are consistant with the road environment and each other as far as is possible. Limits which are apparently inconsistant with the road environment are sometimes a necessary evil - however, where the justification doesn't exist they do alot of harm IMV.
Ah.. but far too often - no more thought is given to a situation other than reduce a speed limit and enforce with a camera
I don't think thats fair, at least, not until the public or their representitives get involved - but thats the catch of democracy
But I don’t choose who represents these parties – they are foisted on us. And they are not road experts or even drivers or riders either..
But then there is a saying
Those who can – DO
Those who cannot – opt for POLITICS and proof of their ineptitude is apparent across the globe
It should also be noted that the Ministers all want us to buy them a Jag “because it can accelerate out of danger faster than the cheaper eco-friendly Prius.”
Hmmm speed kills all but Cabinet Ministers then
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We have one or two road around here which are NSL - then we have less than half mile of 40 mph - A591 past Grasmere - we have about three such ones. Given the layout - the junction, the pub und the lay-by with the scenic view...I think it would be better to have the whole mile und bit at 40 mph instead of this rather silly situation....