Safe Speed Forums

Do you know how weight limits are set?

Point being?



Why the presumption one has to drive on the margins of legality wrt speed limits?

Yes, and that distribution will be on the low side - for the reasons I pointed out. Read it again.

You appear to be ignoring the laws of probability.
Just because something's possible does not make it probable. My personal wealth is increased not a jot by the fact that someone else has won the lottery.
Just because some individuals are over 7' tall doesn't change the distribution of heights over the population.
In any individual case it's impossible to predict deltaV, given S, therefore in any individual case no relationship exists.

There's another subtle point you're ignoring: given that maximum S is generally in the order of several seconds (given that a driver can generally see a good distance) there is almost always enough time avalilable for a reasonably hazard-aware driver to slow down to a more appropriate speed for any hazards in good time. For that reason, and given the implied provisos, the faster driver has a lower risk simply because the less time you spend on the road the less likely you are to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Well who else is supposed to do it?

Heaven forbid that in a democracy the elected representatives of the people have any say!

I think the Mad Doc's rant over the "MEN" report on potholes speak volume

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Hey, SafeSpeed!

Rather than embargo this fellow under the AH rule, let him be a sort of “SafeSpeed Ambassador” - he shows what calibre of people your ideas attract!

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I stole this .sig

Not exactly, but I do know that a commonly-used measure for road life is the ESAL (equivalent standard axle load), calculated as (axle weight / 8.2 tons) ^ 4.2. The design life of a road surface is then expressed in ESALs.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Are you suggesting that the best person to set a speed limit is one that is untrained, unskilled and not required to adhere to government guidelines?

I think most people in a democracy would prefer an experienced professional to make road safety decisions and not the local council.

People who know what they're doing.
Would you feel comfortable about your elected representative having a say over how your brain surgeon should operate on you?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I think the theory is that “SafeSpeeders” do what's best for residents, cyclists, pedestrians and all other roads users, out of pure altruism, God/god bless them!

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I stole this .sig

But Basingmate - I do not know if ndp ist trolling or what.. so far ist doing remarkably good job of not lookiing for sunlight und daylight


But to ndp -

Everthing in life carry risk... und you see this in schools where kids fail to make progress to next level in their Teaching/Learnign Assessment doo-dahs - because they fear failing, fear he challenge to improve und want to stay in safe niche of status quo ...(Relatives are teachers - we chat... we set world right over phone... )

ist risk in everything.. even dancing the tango with Mad Doc ... Und IG? Feet everywhere ! He can sing - but he cannot dance

But ist all calcluated risk und when you drive or do anything - dancing, cooking, DIY, work - you do risk assess according to priority of danger they pose to you - und also the opprotnity which ist open to you - und you seize the opportnity to make the progress too

Ist called being human being und ist what separated us (apart from speech und our thinking capacity) from the other animals on planet. und evolved us to current forms in first place.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Liebchen We do our best to help folks

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

On this rare occasion, I partly agree with you. The difference between a professional and a layperson is this: professional have more knowledge to understand the domain, they are competent to practise and they should take responsibility for their actions.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that the professionals in charge of the system have been given the right goals and parameters, and being government workers, responsibility for their actions is not imposed upon them.

Of course, the councillors are held responsible at the ballot box. This means that, for a professional job, a balance will be needed between the professionals, and the elected officials who take responsibility for setting the goals and achieving their outcomes.

In my opinion, the goals should be politically determined using professional advice, while the implementation to achieve those goals should be managed by professionals, with political advice! Goals can include anything from noise and discomfort abatement, traffic throughput, queue avoidance, safety, larger environmental concerns, etc. There must be many parameters. It’s quite a big job, so there should be no wonder how contentious it is, and there is no one right way to do it.

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I stole this .sig

And an extremely large number of wrong ways of doing it.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

The relationships between professions and politicians are uncomfortable at best. We have many instances across many fields of professionals having politically derived goals imposed on them which are, in their professional view, unworkable and unrealistic (and sometimes even harmful). We see this in medicine, education and other areas. Politicians, as you have said above, concern themselves with "wider issues" and often try to impose goals in one area in the hope of addressing problems only loosely connected to them.

Sadly the professions' side in the profession/politician balance has been constantly eroded since the day Margaret Thatcher was elected and this has been continued with enthusiam by every government since. People now regard professionals with distrust rather than confidence as a result.

Going off-topic a bit, but I believe that this state of affairs has always existed to a greater or lesser extent. Except that hundreds of years ago the power was excersised more by the church than by politicians, and as the power of the church has been eroded so the politicians have taken over.
We appear to have had a bit of an age of enlightenment from around 200 years ago, lasting until a couple of decades ago, when scientists and other professionals had a bit more say in how the world is run. Sadly, we now appear to be reverting back to the bad old days, and science and engineering are being relegated to doing the bidding of their political masters.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

If you don't know, why do you suppose the setting of weight limits is so different than the setting of speed limits?

Weight limits are set for two entirely different reasons - to protect vulnerable road infrastructure that might be damaged by excessive weights, and to keep heavy vehicles away from what are judged to be unsuitable roads.

The former I would expect to be done in a scientific and uncontroversial manner, but the latter is obviously, as with speed limit setting, subject to political influence.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

(I am of course assuming you are referring to the elected members when you say "the local council")

So what if the professionals disagreed with you?

What if the professionals decided to build a nuclear power station next to / on top of your house? I would rather expect you would want some say in some sort of democratic process - I rather doubt you would roll over and say "well they're professionals, they know what they're doing".

Agreed - but surely where others have to face a risk posed by others they should have some say in how much risk should be posed?