Safe Speed Forums

So you ride all year round, and you have never once dropped, slipped, or otherwise had your motorcycle deviating from the vertical unintentionally?

While I am not passing doubt on your riding skills, even the best riders in the world will end up unintentionally parting company with their bike at least once during their 2 wheel career.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

not once (touch wood) i am happy to report

Even the most careful (or cowardly - you decide) of us have been offed. My first was on a rally field infront of about 25 people.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Awww go on then! put me out of my misery! What was the reason for the 70mph motorway speed limit and why did it end up being the same as the limit on dual cariageways (which have roundabouts, "T" junctions, traffic lights and lay-bys on them and have always strick me as inherently far less safe)!?

Well I do too - but only if they're putting anyone in danger! I'd get a lot more scared if I was plodding along at (say) 55 on the single carriageway NSL road from my place to Carlisle and someone overtook me WITHOUT exceeding the speed limit! Crikey! assuming we weren't all dead by the end of the manoeuvre, I'd probably know them well enough to be practially family!

Up here, overtaking opportunities are few and far between. If you get stuck behind a truck doing 40, there is often reasonable scope for overtaking it without going (much) over 60 - but what about the other cars in the queue behind me? To my mind, that's just selfish driving. If you establish that it IS safe to overtake (and I think that's where many drivers ARE woefully inadequate) then in my view, the best thing to do is to "nail" it (adhesion permitting) and spend as little time on the wrong side of the road as possible. An added benefit is that someone else might get the chance to overtake safely before the road gets twisty again. Failure to do this tends to (in my view) lead to frustration building up and that's when people start doing daft things - especially if they're late!

Not if they have stabilizers fitted

i believe the 70mph limit stuck because of the oil crisis in the 70s... you can probably thank the limit in some part for relatively low oil prices.. 40 years of unlimited motorway speed = an awful lot of wasted fuel. it's not _just_ about safety.

what is inherently 'wrong' about the limit anyway?

i agree with your dual carriageway comment.

I think the crux of this matter, is JEC cannot understand why all people do not drive like JEC!

You really have to remember that the driving test in this country allows drivers to obtain a license, to drive 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, in rain, sleet, snow, fog, ice, light, dark, wind, hail, on motorways, rural roads, urban roads, mountain passes and "Lincolnshire flat for 20 miles" roads - often without any previous experience of many of the above whatsoever.

A typical example was my brother, a Star Rider scheme instructor at the time, came to visit me at college in Blackpool, and was taken completely by surprise by a tram where they share the road by the Metropol Hotel!!

JEC's aproach would seem to be "what a plonker" instead of accepting that not everyone has seen a tram coming towards them in the middle of the road - especially if you live in Cumbria!! This is why education is so important.

Perhaps like myself, JEC employed COAST skills without knowing they had a name - but again, many drivers need to be reminded and taught these skills - and taught to PRACTICE them. Not all drivers are the same - as JEC has realised!

Unfortunately, imposing speed limits to make roads safer these day, is a bit like keeping your children indoors, rather than teaching them to treat the roads and the traffic on them with respect. The end result is one day they slip out and get injured, because they didn't know what they should be doing! This is why I use the word education so often.

Yesterday I emailed Radio Cumbria about the 4x4 drivers who were making fools of themselves in the deep snow we have had. My comments were read out on air, and invoked a storm of protests from drivers who said they COULD drive in snow - but this picture from the BBC site showed a typical example of a driver who thought ALL WHEEL drive would be the answer to his problems.

Other drivers contacted the station to say they AGREED with my observations, and I challenged the BEEB's Cumbria station to do something about it.
Today, they had an off road driving centre giving advice on driving 4x4's in the snow and ice - and how to make best use of the features available!

This should be done BEFORE the snow, on a national basis!!


In the view above, the straight road, with central median near the filling station and protected turning lanes is 40 mph.
It used to be NSL with three lanes.
The side road which leads off left, just ahead of the furthest car, is 8-10 feet wide, and twists and turns between trees and bushes, limiting visibility to just a few yards. Its limit is NSL!.

What on earth were they thinking of!! It's no wonder drivers have no respect for speed limits!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

W-r-r-ron-n-nGG!


It was introduced about 1966 after biggest pile up in British driving history - in .........................

.........................................

the fog

Was knee jerk reaction in much same way as the one intorduced for the denser Ruhr-Gebiet network in 1982 after American driver caused Germany's worst ever pile up in Dusseldorf section of A/bahn. Und ist limited to 81.25 mph as rest of Europe (though Italy, und one section in Austria has 92 mph limit und huge chunk of Germany ist still unrestricted ) Und the accdents? By und large - their stats show hty are in the lower speed limit - but then these are the busiest sections anyway...

Und we have also come longest way since Moggies und Anglia's consumed a lot of petrol too.

Many modern cars are guzzling lead-free fuels und doing plenty to the gallon or litre (whichever "currency" you think in ) .Ist when they are travelling slowly in jams that they actually drink more fuel - und we judge this from the amount these cars need on refills

Thus - ist more economical to drive to progress in safest fashion - und COAST drivers do spend less on car maintenance, wear und tear und get most economical value for money of litres of blei-frei und derv purchased und consumed.

Ist purchasing power of my pounds - und I alswys try to make my one pound do the work of two pounds in value whenever I can


By the way - have Advanced Motorbike qualification - und have nice sporty Jap made model.... But I prefer my Jag! Ist more kitten friendly

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Bravo Liebchen - und we all know how may tourists do have an unpleasant memory because they did not do homework before setting off on drive or walk or bicycle ride here.

We just are not equipping with enough skill to cope with all this... und we are not checking after-test progress to make sure our new drivers are gaining sufficient experience either.

Education ist "key"

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

PS - do a listen again for yesterday und today's WOGAN show

It seem Boggy Marsh ist most upset over blemish on licence at Pitlochry -after 40 years of safe driving...und he made comment of cam being yard within the limit change... but the poems und stuff coming in are very very funny!

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

mmm quite.
the a45 from cov-brum is dc & 60 up to just beyond the airport, i can;t see any reason for the rural section not being NSL now that they've slip roaded all the junctions (and the camera is still there on the downhill even though they've modified the junction significantly )

so i pootle at 60 (ish) to coventry (well not at the moment due to roadworks but anyway) take the first slip at allesley and go left onto a small section of semi-urban dc between two roundabouts (maybe 3/4 of a mile) and guess what.. yup nail it to 70 as its NSL

[i then turn right onto dc into town with muchos junctions and usually L1 parked up anyway which is errrr 40.... to do 40 down there safely past parked cars requires supreme concentration & observation!]

some things just dont add up

ok rant over.

Well Jec, Wildcat beat me to it but I agree with you that it then stayed in place during the 70s fuel crisis. What's more worrying is the completely arbitrary way that it was decided - have a look at what everyone's doing and then set it as being the speed at which 85% of the drivers did. Hardly scientific is it?! (and it wouldn't have helped with the fog crash even if it HAD been in place beforehand!)

I agree that driving slower uses less fuel. In fact, if the government came out and openly admited that this current over-zealous enforcement of motorway speed limits was to do with meeting CO2 targets, I'd still not be happy about it but at least I'd understand the logic! The trouble is that if they did admit that, they'd have to allow more frugal machines (like, er... well... bikes! to be honest!!) to go faster! Our current motorway limit is out of step with most of mainland Europe. It hasn't been changed for a great many years. Cars, on the other hand HAVE - beyond all recognition! When it was set, skinny cross-ply tyres were the norm, disc brakes were only fitted to high performance cars - hell some of them still had MECHANICAL brakes!!!! Ever driven a car with cable brakes? SCARY!! Ventilated discs were non-existant, airbags, ABS, stability control....

I agree the CO2 argument is a good one but speed limits are not the solution. The solution is for the government to stimulate research into less damaging technologies and incentivise those technologies to get the consumer interested - maybe by under-writing the warranties on the cars or something similar. Let's not forget (and I hold the EC governments collectively responsible for this - not just the UK government) that before their imposition of emissions limits that (effectively) mandated catalysts, most manufacturers were working on "lean burn" engines that reduced emissions by not burning as much fuel to start with. The technology wasn't quite market-ready when the emissions requirements came in so they all just slapped catalysts on instead and abandoned their research. Only now are the likes of Mitsubishi trying to re-kindle it so we've lost a good ten years there! Cats do a great job of clearing up carbon MONoxide, unbrned fuel and oxides of Nitrogen but they actually make CO2 emissions WORSE because they need the engine to run richer than it otherwise would. And what are we now being told the No.1 environmental priority is?

Hmmm... another spectacular "own goal" for the legislators I'd say!

Oh yes. And that's without considering the 15 tons of South African rock that has to crushed and processed for the precious metals to make each and every single cat. What's the major part of the SUBSTANTIAL cost of a cat? Energy...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

yes, i know _why_ the speed limit was introduced (you failed to read my post) - i'm simply saying i believe it _stuck_ because of the oil crisis in the 70s.

it's not economical to drive faster than 70, not by any means! I don't know of any vehicle that becomes more economical at 80-90-100mph than it is at 70mph. i get about 50mpg out of my VW diesel at 70, when i tried driving a long motorway journey at as close to 60 as possible i got an extra 70 miles out of the tank!

Sorry can't quite understand where this is going. Limit set long time ago - fuel crisis - then leave the limit. No mention of safety then. So if we had only safety to consider what should the limit on a motorway be.

I'll start the ball rolling - 85 mph. Cameras not allowed - Police patrols only. ( all drivers to pass AIM test before allowed on motorway )

I think that would be the safest scenario I could think of.

Richard

85mph even in fog, rain and snow?

Point of order Madam Chairman...

I've got one..! Admittedly, it's a fairly rare beast, but its best fuel consumption is achieved at between 110 and 120mph - due to a mixture of aerodynamics, gearing, turbocharger configuration and the specific-consumption curve of the engine. Admittedly, it's not very good - 27mpg at that speed, but it's better than it does at 70 - which is around 22mpg.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Only marginally more dangerous, and just as stupid, as 70 in those conditions!

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

I think the central message of Safespeed that you are choosing to sidestep is that we SHOULDN'T NEED A SPEED LIMIT TO TELL US THAT 85MPH IN THE FOG IS TOO FAST.

Equally we shouldn't have a lower limit imposed on us by cameras on the offchannce that it might occasionally be foggy.

This has just brought the law into disrepute.