Safe Speed Forums

So is that it then? Just slow down and everything will be OK?
What about this then?

Is it OK to drive past the speed cameras tailgating the car in front in a 4x4 at 35+ while on the phone?
I would of course been able to drive a little faster and leave the 4x4 behind - but that would have put me over the limit!
Which one of us would present the greater danger?

There is a great deal of danger in adopting a "The law is the law" approach. History is full of examples of bad laws, which have only been repealed after unnecessary suffering.
Government approval (in the form of licencing of product) was given to THALIDOMIDE, and it is STILL used, but failure to recognise the problem left hundreds subjected to terrible defects.

If "safety" cameras worked, those charged with operating them would not have to lie and cheat, or misrepresent their actions to the public at large in order to gain approval. Sorry Steve... Accepting government law without question will lead to a loss of democracy!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I have noticed how the most justified camera sites (ie. where it is most likely dangerous to exced the speed limit) tend not to have cameras in the boxes. In Dorset anyway.

Then there's the one in Sandford where it used to be , they changed it to , then improved the pavement/visibility and it's still but still safe to do 40. That camera is always live (always a little glint of a lens in the hole) and even goes wrong sometimes, I saw it photograph a static bus the other day and it has got someone doing ~25mph a while ago which got in to the papers.

One of the 30 limit sites is a good quality two lane dual carageway with centre barrier, on a hill. It's not very long. Going down the hill it is very difficult to stick to . Going up the hill you have just come from a road of the same quality which was NSL. Only two signs then lamp posts. 'tis easy to forget. The road just doesn't feel .

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Andrew.

Basingwerk: "Good idea – we’ll do a test to see whether you are average or not.

Do you want to be able to drive faster than the legal limit, or are you happy to keep to the limit? Don’t be evasive because it is transparent."

Dear lad I did ask you to prove not assert your statement, asking me to provide the proof is like the prosecution asking a judge to provide evidence in a criminal trial, entertaining but a waste of time.

I ask again prove your statement, don't bounce it back to me because you cannot.

FWIW I am happy to drive within the limit and a large chunk of my driving is well below the limit as it just isn't safe for a variety of reasons.

However, using speed enforcement is like using the preverbial blunt instrument.

I have professional experience of speed limits being altered downwards not for safety reasons but financial and to promote official policy, this is fundemtaly wrong as it devalues the safety aspects of limits.

As a comparison in the safety industry the so called holy grail was the LTI statistic (Lost Time Incidents) It was arbitary, made no allowance for differerences in high/medium/low risk industries, it led to massive under reporting, setting safety back. We now have a move towards behavioural based safety wich has shown better results in a shorter time frame.

Perhaps we should be looking at behavioural based road safety, better training and test standards rather than pinning safety to random and on occasion inappropriate limits

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Based upon Basingwerk's answers and distortion I rest my case, happy in the knowledge that I made my point perfectly.

If his only response to the Jag vs Micra scenario was that the Jag was unreliable then it leaves no doubt in my mind that the man is just a troll.

Interesting stats about camera locations by the way. We have a road through Aberdeen which is dual carriageway, but lots of junctions. It's maybe 2 miles long and the limit varies from 40 to 30 to 40 to 30 to NSL.

There are Gatsos all along this road, although to be fair, they are buried deep within the limits (as opposed to parked behind the 30 signs). whether or not they're at dangerous locations on the road is another matter. Lots of drivers get caught there though.

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Well, it's like getting blood out of a stone, but you appear to be saying that you want to be able to speed when you feel like it, because "a large chunk" is not commitment.

You are a average punter around here after all. So, what exactly was your first denial about, and why have you reversed your position so swiftly?

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I stole this .sig

Sadly, I can only conclude that jamie_duff really is an Official CougarFest Mechanic, and deserves our full sympathy for the duration of his illness. In the meantime, I'd be grateful if he kept his speed addiction on the track.

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I stole this .sig

Basingwerk, I believe you have now demonstrated to all why your account should be suspended again.

DILLIGAF?

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I stole this .sig

Can I invoke Godwin's Law to bring this discussion to a close

Oh, you lose, btw

Woof! Woof!

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I don’t know much about that. Thalidomide has chirality, which might affect the way it works. In any case, thalidomide is a good treatment for leprosy. You can give it to ¾ of the population (young girls, blokes and older ladies) because they don’t get pregnant!

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I stole this .sig

I use Mein Kampf because it is the canonical example to illustrate how a person who is convinced in a struggle turns out to be horribly wrong in the end, as I am sure you will be. As such, the comparision is not 'in irrelevant context' and Godwin's Law is not applicable.

So you are wrong, as ever.

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Which makes you equally as bad as, if not worse than they are. You have no more remit to act as a road enforcement agent than someone else does to break the law.

The woman in the 4x4 on the mobile would have stuck to the limit - that's what people do when they pass a camera!

My mention of Thalidomide is to illustrate the Government's lack of attention in exploring all the possibilities.
Just as their policy of allowing local councils and people in pubs to decide speed limits which are wholly inappropriate, and then compounding the mistake by introducing robotic enforcement, they are bringing the law into disrepute.

Do you have a TV ariel or a satalite dish? Does it have planning permission? If not, YOU are breaking the law - it happens to everybody - breaking a law which is of little value - but it does no harm most of the time.... unless your ariel falls off and injures somebody!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I don't ALWAYS drive within the limit.

i.e. on an empty motorway in clear conditions, I'm happy to break the limit. But if I get caught, I won't grumble - I broke the law, so I'll pay the fine.

HOWEVER, I still think that too much emphasis is placed on strict compliance to speed limits and not enough on other areas of road safety.

I'm relieved to see you posted that WITHOUT checking your PMs.

Please check your PMs.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

What on earth are you taking man?


Numbers mean sweet FA to me where driving is concerned BW, they never have done & never will.
Wherever I drive (or ride), my first intention is always to get to my destination in the quickest & safest time possible. In order to achieve this, it requires constant observation of the prevailing conditions which are constantly changing.
If the prevailing conditions dictate that I can only safely do 45mph on the motorway (as they did yesterday afternoon on the M3 where a 70 limit was in force), then so be it.
By the same token, if the conditions dictate that doing 80mph on that same motorway is equally safe, then that is what I will do.

Camera sites do not worry me at all when I am on my bike, and it is only the Truevelo/SPECS that concern me when I am in my car.
What I find much more concerning is that when I am approaching a Truevelo/SPECS site, far too much of my attention is being drawn from what is going on around me and it is all directed at my speedo.
Now I don't know about you, but I would much rather have somebody behind me who is looking at where they are going as opposed to looking at the dashboard.


I'll happily "take the pledge" when we stop pissing about hiding cameras behind bushes on NSL roads and setting an artificially low limit, and actually start putting them where they should be (eg, outside schools, etc).

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

You got that right - I've got a heavy cold at the momment, and I'm taking it out on the wrong people.



I know ... I actually try, try, and try again to be patient, but if they get really too close, I got to slow down, for thier own good as well as mine.

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Yeah – somebody’s got to try their luck with the cops and the speed cameras, just to give them some work to do! m-ways are different, I’ll grant you that. But the law is the law. Maybe 80 is a better limit, today?



My general advice, which I hope people heed, is to be calm when you drive, and cut yourself and others margin so that you don’t need your eyes glued to the dashboard. The limit is the absolute top speed.



Well that’s a start. I particularly like you suggestion to put many cameras near schools (and residential areas?).

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I stole this .sig

What??
Most cops (save for the newbies out of Hendon) don't give a rats arse about speeding in general, they only get the hump (and rightfully so) when the manner of driving is dangerous (and it is quite possible to drive dangerously at speeds as low as 10mph).


The only difference between an M-Way and a residential street is that the traffic is moving faster on the M-Way. Other than that, all the same rules regarding safety apply.


It doesn't matter what action I take on any given road, there is no way I can stop somebody from automatically paying attention to their speedo just because they have seen a camera.


You remind me of the guy who was on tv a few years back.
He was an arrogant twat who took pride in sitting in L3 of the motorway at bang on 70mph and refused to budge because "the law is the law". Unfortunately for him, he tried this tactic on an unmarked police car one day, and promptly got nicked for driving without due care.
I was avidly watching in the hope that we would see him get a smack in the mouth from another driver for being such an arsehole, but I suppose getting nicked was the next best thing.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?