Safe Speed Forums

Its well researched that memory does strange things, people tend to idealize the past, remembering how the weather was always hot, people always polite, traffic offenders were caught by the thousands of traffic police.

Any-one with a clear memory, who wants to be honest will tell you you could drive arond at break-neck speeds without ever been caught, not like nowadays when you have to keep sudenly braking for those gatsos, before accelarating away.

Be honest lots of you out there just hanker for the days when you could race around like morons, without the inconvienince of been caught, road safety BAH HUMBUG

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

No - tsm - we hanker for the days when ----
concentration on hazards was more important than a number on a stick - they realised that there was no shame on driving well below the limit, and others following would respect that. Of course in those days we could get advice from the upholders of the law - traffic cops could be approached for advice ---try asking a camera about the highway code .It was felt that the limit was a good guide to the safest maximum speed for most drivers, and that only a fool exceeded it .Of course in those days experts set limits.
And ..........we did not have supercillious idiots preaching that the magic number was the be all and end all opf road safety ----it was felt that ,within reason the driver could be trusted to determine the safest speed for his vehicle , within the bounds of the recommended limit.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Actually in "the olden days" you were far more liklly to be caught.

I remember the days of the police car, traffic cops at 11pm on patrol (I grew up in the Cotswolds by the way not some urban domain)

As a young driver I was frequently stopped, I worked in a fast food outlet leaving work after the clubs were closed, there was always an excuse for the stop check; intermittant rear light sir, report of a stolen vauxhall viva just like this one sir etc etc etc.

The point is the police were out there, you didn't know where they were you didn't risk it if you were "sensible"

Now there are not sufficient traffic police. Hampshire County Council area (where I live) covers and area of 641.44 square miles, it includes the M3, A3, M27, A34 roads it includes Southampton, Portsmouth, Basingstoke, Winchester, Andover, Aldershot as sizable towns. Tonight as in most nights there is one Traffic Police patrol out in Hampshire.

Of course we can drive safe as there are speed cameras out there, which at 2330 hrs will be on the look out for drunk drivers.

You really don't get it do you, most people like you who come one here actually do figure out that we are not "Speedophiles" and we have more interest in road policing and roads safety and more understanding of it than you will ever achieve as many of us here have actually scraped up the fracking mess.

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Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

Nothing was offered for discussion, no new information was given; that's clearly a troll post.

Just as well for TSM that I'm not admin, that would have been cause for deletion!

what was offered for dicussion is the fact that there are just as many traffic cops about, but theyare aided by modern technology.
I suggest the Brake site tey offer an ecellent overview of REAL road safety.

THis IS just Speed freakery, but none of you wish to admit it, you al no best, speed freaks and coppers ( there often one and the same thing in my expierience)

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

Justify that staement. You will not be able to do it. it is a falsehood accepted by ACPO

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Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

You just make assertions without making the slightest attempt to suubstantiate them - and then as soon as someone starts asking you questions you simply ignore them and start another thread.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

the sensible majority wrote:
...... is the fact that there are just as many traffic cops about,.....

A lot of drivers get confused between the vehicles from this department

http://www.highways.gov.uk/


and real police cars.

Hint - the real article carries the wording "police" ,with blue/yellow flashing and a blue light ---thought it might be helpfull as we don't see many about.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Here is the actual facts as defined in the Ninth report of the House of commons Select committee

TRAFFIC POLICE


62. In recent years there has been a significant reduction in the numbers of traffic police. ACPO noted that "traffic police numbers (as defined by HMIC) appear to have dropped by some 11%" between 1996-7 and 200-01.[103] The national changes mask very differing pictures in different authorities. In some areas, the reduction in police numbers has been much more than 11%: the Metropolitan Police had 921.9 traffic police in 1996-7, but only 685.7 in 2000-01. This number was further, and severely reduced in 2002, albeit, we were assured, temporarily.[104]


63. ACPO justified the fall on the grounds that the greater use of cameras compensated for the loss of police numbers, as the increasing number of speeding offences dealt with by the police showed.[105] It admitted, however, that there was "a clear demand from the public...to see more police officers out on public roads". This demand is not unreasonable. While cameras bring many benefits, they cannot do everything. They cannot be used to prevent inappropriate speed. They are of little use against the large number of unlicensed drivers in the country. Transport for London informed us that:


"A minority of drivers operate beyond the traffic regulations without being registered as the vehicle's owner, without tax or insurance and these drivers have a disproportionate number of crashes....In London, the Havering road safety group instigated a survey in October. With the help of local police cadets they stopped and checked 157 vehicles (in four hours, over two days) and found 48 with no road fund licence".[106]


There is now the technology to detect untaxed cars. In addition, in the future, Mr Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales, suggested that it would be possible to ensure compliance through digital cameras which could recognise faces, but this has important civil liberties implications. For the present action against unlicensed drivers requires, first and foremost, traffic police who stop motorists.[107] Safety cameras are of little use in catching or deterring drivers travelling at inappropriate speeds or unlicensed drivers. Moreover, cameras paid for under the scheme can only be used at severe accident blackspots. The Police must ensure that there are adequate numbers of traffic police to deter:


- inappropriate speed;

- unlicensed drivers; and

- drivers who speed at places away from the accident blackspots where camera will be located.

There should be no further reduction in the numbers of traffic police.

And David Begg (spit) the Chair of the commission for Integrated Transport highlighted that the percentage of police dedicated to traffic enforcement had declined from 15% to just 5% in this Police Magazine article Note the admission by Mr Brunstrom on the third page of the article "It is clear that numbers have fallen in the last twenty years"

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Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

I remember the days when you would get pulled over for a documents check when driving through town at 2:00 in the morning. A good excuse to see if you have been drinking.

I remember the time I used to see traffic police parked by the side of the road

I remember the time you could get "cautioned" if your driving was seen to be inappropriate.

I remember the time when you could drive down concentrating on the road ahead and not swerving around chicanes, braking for speed bumps, scanning the horizon for camera vans and gatso lines in the road.

I can remember the when we had a "road fund license" and not VED

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Speed camera policy Kills

Really? Where? Have they had a revamp.

Brake did some sterling work with regards to dangerous trucks. But then instead of shutting up shop having won the battle they decided to start meddling with subjects they don't really understand.

the 11per cent rduction you talk about, in relative terms is little, when you add into the equation that alot of the work done by the traffic cops such as spped traps is now done by gatsos, the 89 per cent left re left to do the other end of the work that younlove so much , this is proably an Increase.

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

You are right it is so little that even Richard Brunstrom, Advocate of the Camera, thought it necessary to complain.

Get real TSM, Cameras may well have had their place in a co-ordinated raod safety strategy but Governmental greed and misguided strategy lead to the overuse and abuse of them and turned them into an excuse (backed up by comments like yours, to reduce the numbers of police.

The result is that the areas that now have the most reliance on cameras now have the smallest traffic divisions, by coincidence they also have the worst Road Safety record when you strip the spin out of the figures.

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Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

Yeah. But it isn't 11% reduction.

Home office figures put the percentage of officers involved in traffic at 15% of force strength in 1994 and 6% of force strength in 2001. ANd there's been a further decline since then.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg.

In the mid 1990s traffic divisions were raided to build armed response.

An explosion of paperworks means that the officers we do have are less available.

The 'tenure' thing means that the officers we do have are less experienced.

And since traffic policing is no longer a core police activity (due to the target based definitions issued by the Home Office in 1994), Chief constables have given it far less emphasis.

And the training courses have been cut because training is expensive.

All in all it may well add up to a 90% reduction in experienced traffic officers on patrol over a decade.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

With global warming - ist supposedly warmer. We get spells of cold Springs from time to time... hence oldest wife's saying in your country of "Never casting out a clout until May ist out!"


A "clout" ist not in this context of your language - a "box on the ears" or slap with hand not ist it the target per long distance archery (which as law abiding citizen I practice every Sunday - und I have biggest photo of Gatso as the Bulleye )

But ist from your Old English "clut" which mean CLOTH!



Most are - politeness beget politeness.

Pee cee nonsense beget what it deserve...



I remember seeing policemen when I visited this country as little girl. You could always ask them for directions .. My Papa was always on the look out for them



The police were around when I first arrived in the country. My home country has speed cameras at much tighter margin. They have system of fine by amount you can afford to pay as well - means if you work hard you pay more und if you use the needle parks you don't pay anything. Swiss not happy chcocolate bunnies over this. But - points not on licence to certain level of trangression - just the fine. Serious und they get the points as well.

But one thing they kept to - gendarme. Und the French? Introduced 1000 radar fixes at hot spots und DOUBLED the number of Traffic POLICE who are targetting a seat belts, drink, tailgates and so on. It depend how well you speak French as to how far to get over the little attitude test.

In the UK - lucky if you see a cop und people are hooing around more dangerously than ever because they know as long as they brake for camera - all ist fine. (Evidenced IN CAMERA on TRAFFIC COPS who were chasing a dangerous idiot. They were following und even remarked that his speed slowed down to "perfection of legal" as he passed a Gatso.

I even remember reading a post on PH (he got some stick over it ) but he said he liked the Gatso as it meant that he could speed most of the time so long as not in front of one of these devices.




Nope - we want people to take driving seriously und drive so as not to have the avoidable collisions.

By this I mean there ist not a lot we can do if someone has heart attack at wheel und collides with something - usually something which has people travelling within it... not that I am being subjective or anything..

But ist.. talking pride in driving again - safety led und this means using COAST/LOOKOUT to avoid collisions und conflict und POWER to keep road worthy car at all times.

You mention the BRAKE site... I think if you read this site/fora in fullness - you will find same safety messages regarding Drugs(prescribed as well as illegal) /Fatigue/Drink/ good manners on road being advocated as ignition keys to road safety.

BRAKE also concede the role of better training as well - unlike the other one as discussed eleswhere.


But ...where BRAKE lost plot to some extent was in allowing its more laudable policies to be swept aside when hijacked by speed camera hype - which they choose to believe - yet they offer counselling to victims - but their press releases only refer to a selection of those involved in certain type of accident... those hit by speeding car. But they fail to mention the number of these which were really hit and runs/hits by unlicenced drivers as this would undermine their stance wouldn't it?

You then have to look back to Gov stats and spend a heck of a lot of time reading behind the collated figures... und you also have to cross reference with other stat sources - A&E, insurance stats. This takes a lot of hours...und ist ephemeral und geographic in differences as well. But even a rndom check at a fairly superficial level shows that far too many accidents are caused by illegal drivers who do not drive to even our current just about adequate standard in any stretch of imagination.

Und if you want to peruse a very good informative site

www.learnandlive.org.uk

und

www.brag.org.uk


Both excellent in advice for young drivers und their parents.

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Perhaps one of the BiB can confirm or deny my understanding:

In 1999, the defintion of "traffic officer" changed. Prior to this, a "traffic officer" was a member of a dedicated traffic unit (i.e. proper trafpol). In 1999, the definition changed to "staff who are predominantly employed on motor-cycles or in patrol vehicles for the policing of traffic and motorway related duties" and so included any officer engaged in routine patrolling where the remit of that patrol includes traffic. For example, an officer who regularly patrols the neighbourhood for 51% of his time on the lookout for any criminal behaviour but who can respond to traffic shouts is a "traffic officer" under the new definition.

This change of definition has allowed some constabularies to disband their traffic divisions and absorb their trafpols into the general "labour pool". So, not only do we have fewer traffic officers, those that we do have are less likely to be the highly-skilled trafpols of old that did so much for making our roads so safe.

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Will

This old saying comes from the blossoming of the hawthorn. Hawthorn is also known as "may" (reference here), and so the saying refers not to the month of May, but to the blossoming of the hawthorn and means, "Don't dress for spring (cast a clout) until the hawthorn has blossomed (may is out)", which makes sense no matter when that occurs.

HTH,

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Will

A lesson in point. The next time TSM starts a thread asking a question, ignore him or her. We just end up revisiting an argument that the lazy git him/herself is too thick to go and read.

There are gigiabytes of coverage already in SS on the topics TSM asks questions about but is too idle or stupid to use the search facility to find the answers to.

Memory is a strange thing, but computer archives are forever...

Wonderful how some sayings are sort of UK wide, irrespective of the language/dialect used. This was one of my mother's sayings, supposedly from a generation or two back, deriving from language/dialect found on the Northeast coast of Scotland. So at least they had these sort of variable weather conditions close to two hundred years ago.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

neither recommended exeeding the posted limit, given the lack of expertise of young drivers ar'nt they the one's who should concentrate on the road rather than thier speedo, or is that just B*****s

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit