Safe Speed Forums

BBC News article



So do they now want to install cameras on bends?

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Dixie, while you raised this I was resurrecting an older thread about the charging part...

On his comments about speed cameras, there is no doubt that anybody who thinks that we now need to set a speed limit for every corner, and then enforce it though a speed camera is a dangerously incompetent driver, and should be sacked immediately.

So we set a speed limit for the corners, enforce them though cameras and gasp in horror as the number of accidents go through the roof in autumn (leaves) and winter (ice) and any time that it rains heavily.

We both posted at the same time . Rather than have two theads running on the same topic I'll let Paul sort it.

And yes I could not agree more about this guy being sacked for wanting speed cameras on bends. Makes you wonder what planet they're on.

Message from PeterE as moderator - I've changed the title of this thread as it's a different subject to the road charging one

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

And when the first accident results from someone being blinded from a scamera flash, who will get sued? The government? or the driver of the 'speeding' vehicle that triggered the particular flash?

Fundamental problem here - putting a camera on a bend means that it will fail type approval criteria because the technology is even more inaccurate as a result.

The minister calling for this is an ignorant moron (and my local MP )

He doesn't write his own speeches or give his personal views so early in his tenure in his new job.
He is spouting more rubbish as written by his juniors in order to be seen to be saying something meaningful at this time.
The road pricing scheme will, if it's like other gov't IT projects, not work for many years, probably at least 20 years, and that's a long time in politics. Of course, the simplest form of road-pricing is increased tax on fuel and elimination of road fund licence and this could be implimented virtually immediately and would be widely accepted. It's the fairest and simplest, but who would ever suggest the New Labour want 'fair and simple'?
Cash-cameras on bends won't work either as the beams from a Gatso will cross over the road and photograph vehicles travelling in the oposite direction, whilst Truvelo with their sensing strips would also have a problem. Cash-camera vans can't be placed in corners due to the need for 'prior opinion' of speed. The overall safety aspect has not been thought through - how typical of gov't 'spin'.
What a stupid set of ministers we now have.

Is this genius just proposing to enforce the existing limits, in which case there'll still be people falling off the road on plenty of corners, or are they (as I assume must be the case for this proposal to make even the slightest bit of sense) suggesting a separate limit for each corner - presumably set according to the severity of the bend and leading to a complete mish-mash of limits along all but the most basic of roads?

Either way, as others have said, it's a suggestion of the highest numpty-esque quality, and is thus entirely in keeping with the great tradition of government "thinking" we enjoy in this country...

_________________
Chris

I doubt any sane person would do that - otherwise there will be repeated graphic demonstrations of what happens if you brake hard whilst cornering.

G

Will there be different limits for low, wide sports cars on hard suspension and tyres as wide as deck chairs and Rascal vans that will fall over in a breeze?

I highly doubt it.... so what would any limits be based upon? The best handling vehicles in the world? The worst? Or some average with a claus saying "You need to assess the corner for yourself and your vehicle"???

I think lots of drivers of even modest sports saloons will be mighty pissed off if they get flashed for driving round a corner perfectly safely at a speed that would have a Transit van crashing.

Don't even get started on all the variables, such as temperature, road surface, tyre quality/condition etc.

What a rediculous idea based on so many if's, but's and maybe's.

"It makes sense to....." Yeah - it makes sense if you have the IQ of a drawing pin.

_________________

The problem with this is that it falls foul of government lies that try to make us all believe CO2 is a pollutant, and their attempts to profit from the lie. The existing VED scheme discriminates against fuel efficient cars as it only measures C02 output as an absolute, not as a ratio of output to fuel input. More efficient engines will combust more efficiently and generate more C02 for a fixed fuel input.

VED lets the government have their cake and eat it.

well unless you're right on the limit then the answer is not much.

Johnser - I agree in fine dry conditions in a relatively well maintained vehicle, but the implication is that the speed limit for the corner is the safe speed for the corner, and that the driver is no longer allowed to have an opinion. However with a bit of leaf mold, ice or anything that makes the road slipery even lifting off might be enough to get the back-end to swing around, while braking hard will have you going streight off. The real problem is the implication that drivers are not even to be allow to decide what is the correct speed for a corner any more, so everybody will just default to the limit and watch their speedo as they pass the camera ...

Ah, being fair to the poor guy, it does actually make sense to slow down for corners, if your speed on approach is higher than the safe cornering speed for your vehicle and the road conditions. Just a shame he then made the leap of illogic from there to the "let's stick cameras on corners" idea...

_________________
Chris

and you don't think they're doing this now?

Think just how many corners there are on every A & B class road in the entire UK. Now, to set up a speed limit using the local/national gov't procedures through every one of those corners, put up proper signs and then police those short distance reduced limits is not only impractical, but totally impossible.
It's all just 'puff' from a new minister trying to say something to justify his salary and position. Ignore it and it will all go away.

Oh what an idiot our new 'Minister' is. I really do despair at those in Government.

_________________
Good manners maketh a good motorist

I've met him in person on several occasions, and he is a snivelling idiot...

Only a 'snivelling idiot' ? I would have thought a few more adjectives might not come amiss.

Roget's Thesauraus could prove of value here !!

_________________
Good manners maketh a good motorist

Well thanks for thinking of us poor motorcyclists with that generalistic statement. The application of brakes on a M/C when cornering is never a good thing, Actually M/c's are at their most stable when accelerating in a bend.

One of the distinguishing features of the Advanced Motorcyclist is that he recognises that cars drivers will normally slow down on a bend or at best remain at throttle neutral, the advanced motorcyclist plans for this and enters the bend slower than the car and gives himself enough safe distance to accelerate gently to maintain his machine stability.

The last thing we need is for idiotic drivers to jump on the brakes mid corner as they see a speed camera. Corners are already dangerous enough things for bikers, cameras on them will increase biker casualties not reduce them.

_________________
Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator

Yes. And the increase could be very substantial. It's an important point that's probably little known. I'm wondering what we should do with it? BMF?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety