Safe Speed Forums

i know this has been raised before but since i have now had my first experience of these things, i have concerns to air
although it was a box and not curtainsider, the 16 foot 4 trailer that i had this morning did seem to run slightly unsteadily even in light wind. it was a double decker which is named that for obvious reasons however, that itself makes me wonder about the centre of gravity on these things. i dont deal with inside so i dont know how they are loaded but i would assume that there may be a gap of some kind between the bottom deck and the top which will add a lot of weight to the top of the trailer.
the other thing is, when will someone cap the height of trailers? i question the stability after pulling one once and they seem fairly new to our roads so what is next and when will someone say they cant go any higher?

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

I'm interested in the bulk of the post, and obviously there's big trouble if some idiot puts the heavy part of the load on the upper deck - but I don't really know enough to comment further. Except:



Motorway bridges say they can't go any higher. I think the max is 16ft <something>.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

things may have changed but from a legal perspective, i was told that there are boundaries concerning width, weight, length etc but not height. in other words, there is no law to state the maximum height that a trailer can be. there are obviously physical restrictions as you say but legally...

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

At least 16ft 6 paul. Scanny - apparenly the second 'deck' is on hydraulics so they load it first and then raise it to load below. They are SUPPOSED to only put light stuff in the top, but try telling that to an FLT driver... You're lucky you're not trying to drive one down here ATM. I was having trouble in the car yesterday on the A34.

Apparently though, they're not much less stable than a tall fridge trailer because of the extra weight of the insulation in the roof.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Given that motorway gantries have a minimum height standard (an obscure british standard IIRC) and there must be at least 1.5m clearance, I would have thought (but don't know) that there should be a max height for trailers.

Saw a few high sided trailers going into London on the elevated section of the A13 (going past Ford's) and they were swaying nicely in their lanes (wind gusting across the road).

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

That's a bit worrying!
If I were towing something I would want to know what it was and how it was stacked!

_________________
Andrew.

no can do. i dont even know how to get in the back. there is a metal seal on it. similiar size as a padlock but no keyhole and its attached by wire to some big electronic lock thing. dont know. i pick the trailer up, cruise down the motorway and dump it in a truckstop. pick a different one up, return to base and dump it on a bay.

the driver not knowing or having access to the load is probably more common than you would think. load security seems to take higher precedence than road safety ie the driver knowing what the hell is in the back and how its loaded. look at those containers on the road. they come off a ship and no sod knows what is in them til they get to their destination

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

So how do you stand if it's overloaded or is it a case of whoever is loading works to a weight never mind how it is distributed ??

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

That is very worrying!
So maybe some novice was asked to load a double-decker trailer and was told to "load these <heavy things> first, then these <light things> second". Maybe they had just done some lessons loading a car transporter or something, for whatever reason they decided that the top section should be loaded "first".

How do you know if what you are carrying is dangerous? I know the trailers are fitted with warning labels (compressed gas, radioactive, etc.) but if you have one with "compressed gas" on it how do you know if that means you are carrying the contents of someone's house which happens to have a gas barbeque in it or if the trailer is chcok full of gas bottles?

I do hope they never mix these hazards, or share the double decker trailers (one deck per company) or you could get, for example, gas bottles on one level, fertiliser on the other....

Although not knowing what is inside the trailer does explain the whole thing about people hiding in the trailers. Maybe that could be an excuse for HGD drivers to say they must know what they are carrying?

_________________
Andrew.

i have never had the opportunity to find out neither would i like to but i would assume that it is still the drivers responsibility to check the weight etc. there may be a defence in the case of a sealed trailer but i wouldnt put money on it. maybe a more experienced driver could shed a bit more light on this than i can.

look at the illegal immigrants found on trucks coming across from france. even though they were sealed in and the driver could not know of their presence, the driver was fined £2000 per head. some drivers went through heart beat monitors and whatever else they had for checking sealed trailers at the french customs. paperwork to prove it and yet at this side, they STILL faced the same penalty if anyone was found.

just for the record, i am highlighting the injustice of this one rather than debateing whether or not driver involvement played a part. we are assuming these are drivers like myself who are merely sent to pick up a truck and drive it as it stands

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Let's asume whoever loaded it is a dimwit in some other country which has few laws about this sort of thing... Could that happen?

_________________
Andrew.

that is not a fair assumption. we have plenty of dimwits here too so they neednt necessarily be in another country

coincidentally enough, a driver on a different forum has brought up roll overs. he mentioned one truck carrying white goods on a double decker which went over. the main cause was the fact that someone loaded the light stuff (driers etc) on the lower deck and washing machines on the upper deck

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Sorry, I forgot the UK is good at something

_________________
Andrew.

I also had my first experience of a double decker last week.
I would say, just take it easy, and if you're not happy, then pull over and park up, beats having a fall over.
Having said that, I was pulling a lightly loaded 14'9" trailer, 6 ton of cardboard, and got caught on the M180 with wind shear once I got past the forest, I had already slowed down, but left wheel marks on the grass between the tarmac and armco, this was after being blown from L1 into L2 of a 2 lane m'way.
Some double deckers have moveable floors, others don't.

There are limits on all the dimensions except the height, for now, I think the next obvious step will be the Denby Double, 1 tractor unit and 2 trailers, up to 60 ton MAW, but still the same weights per axle.

As for those drivers who fold their curtains all the way back, not sure about this, the wind can get under the roof and lift the trailer off the ground, and I would also question the insurance cover if this is done, and also the structure of the trailer, do the curtains form an integral part of the trailer strength, in some cases Yes.

_________________
Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

thats not good enough for our government. they are coming round to the idea but not raising the MGW. they are talking about permitting these things for the transport of light goods such as breakfast cereals

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

I would never drive anything if I did not know how it had been loaded. Guess I wouldn't work for very long in your occupation though.

Scanny77,
I was a multi drop delivery driver for 14yrs up until 1989 when I left to do the job Im in now, I was always told that as the driver I was always responsible for the vehicle load irrespective to whether I loaded it or not, I always made sure that I checked the rear of it before it was sealed or had them open it for me to check then have it resealed,the other alternative is to make sure that you know what total weight you are carrying by way of consignment notes,this is your only defence to over weight if stopped. Over the last 2 to 3 years i have seen a marked increase in roll overs mainly involving high sided trailers not necessary double decker's,mainly due to a combination of weight, load distribution and driver attitude (manner) which when it comes to it if load is not secured in the rear of curtainsider when picked up from docks,and an incident occurrs on the road which brings into question the load distrubution then the blame rests fair and square with the driver, so if in doubt check otherwise you could get into a lot of trouble especially if someone is seriously injured or killed,my moto was" if in doubt it didnt go out " easier said than done i hear you say but who do you think the company will blame if the driver should have spotted or brought it to their attention.
Stephen

I was the person who raised the issue originally, based purely on the premise that "It doesn't look right".
Since then, I have also seen INTERLINK loading one of these double deckers, and it did not inspire me with confidence. However in this instance the driver was on hand to correct the obvious errors of the forklift guy.

However, going back to my original PoV, the things look too tall for the width of the trailer and axels, no matter how it's loaded!
A lorry load of Andrex, which is more than two times higher than the width has got to be vulnerable to sidewinds!
Everything you have posted here just makes me cringe, and I'll be approaching them with an even greater degree of caution now if it's windy!
Not sure where the M180 is, but it matters not - sooner or later these trailers will come to a road near YOU!!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Another aspect of this practice that I think unfair on the driver is customs etc. If the trailer is locked and the driver has had no sight of the load, how is he to know that what's on the manifest is what's in the trailer? IIRC, a few months ago a news article told of a driver imprisoned after they'd open up his trailer and found it contained illegal immigrants! The driver pleaded ignorance but the report said that in law that was no defence

_________________
Will

In law ignorance is no defence, because it'd be too easy to plead in too many cases otherwise.

Unfortunantly this doesn't address the driver who's under pressure from employers but his legal responcibilities are clear...

_________________
Fear is a weapon of mass distraction