Safe Speed Forums

I had this thought last night while brushing my teeth, but that is just one example of the symptom. My thoughts are summarised by the following statement:

"When the human mind is not being occupied by the current task, then it will automatically find something else to occupy it."

Now I don't have any education in psychology, but when I have a task that demands real attention, then I give it real attention. When attention is not required then the mind wanders, and sometimes then takes actions that then cause significant amounts of concentration to be diverted elsewhere.

So the driving comparison: a driver driving along without artificial restrictions will in general drive to their perceived safe maximum speed for the conditions at all times, and retain as close to full concentration as is practical. However if they are forced to drive to a lower speed (such as by one of the numerous recently lowered speed limits) they unconsciously recognise that they are "bored" and come up with other ways to occupy the mind.

Take mobile phone use: a driver that is driving to the safe limits of the road wouldn't consider making a mobile phone call, but one that is forced to drive at a significantly lower speed has time to think about how he hasn't called so and so about thingummy, and then without thinking about it the mobile is out and the call is placed.

Or eating/drinking/smoking: again the driver at the higher speed doesn't have time to consider doing it, but somebody forced to a lower speed does, and then before they know it are digging into the side pockets looking for the sweets or packet of fags.

The consequence is that these drivers are then in a state of distraction where the alternative task is actually taking priority over the task of driving.

In some ways it is just a slightly different way of looking at several issues that have already been covered, but is it a valid way of considering what is happening on UK roads, and why the accident rates are not dropping?

I agree in principle, but would modify slightly to
"Artificially low speed limits encourage inattention."

I'm quite sure that the postulated effect is real. What we don't know is the size of it. I expect it's quite sizeable.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

and some have such poor hazard perception that they just think there is nothing to do at whatever speed they are going.

and I'd modifiy it slightly further: Sticking verbatim to artificially low speed limits encourages inattention.

Drive along a narrow country lane with poor sightlines, and even with NSL the top speed possible on the particular road is 30mph. Attention and concentration is vital.

Drive along a wider and more important rural road which used to be NSL but now has a 40mph limit and attention and concentration is not so necessary. Wow, I never noticed the cars in that house's driveway before. Wow, look at the view to the left. Wow, I'm on the wrong side of the road. How did I lose concentration?

Any person in charge of a 1500 kg lump of metal who is incapable of remaining at or below the posted speed limit should not be in charge of a vehicle.

It is an insult to those (and I consider myself one of them) who drive safely within the speed limits (whether it by 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or 70 mph) and watch complete ars*holes who think they are so much better that they can overtake at 90 mph or more (and many seem to be in their teens), only to f@ck up and crash and kill either

A) a innocent motorist or pedestrian in the wrong place at the wrong time or
B) their passenger girlfriend/mates

any please read ANY of tomorrows newspapers or news websites for exactly this senario in either a court case or news article

I don't see the relevance of your comments. The discussion is about the negative affect of being bored out of your mind by an inappropriately set speed limit, or are you telling me that you maintain complete concentration on the road and potential hazards while driving in a 30 limit dual carriageway with little other traffic and green fields on either side?

Everybody on this site agrees with you (although using less forceful language) about people driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions - that is why the site is called "Safe Speed", we just disagree with the complete fixation with speed control as the sole method for preventing accidents. Once you get beyond the spin, hype and marketing to look at the real numbers, all the evidence is that speed reduction as a safety policy is a complete failure and has caused an increased number of deaths on the UK roads. It allows the unlicensed joyriding idiots that you are so incensed about to go around without any possibility of being caught, while any normal safe person that takes their eyes off the speedo for 30 seconds or so to watch out for the child running into the road is likely to get prosecuted by the full weight of the law.

Please spend a few hours reading the material on the main site and engage your mind to really think about the issues that affect road safety.

Any one who did the M4 protest last year will tell you it was mentaly exhausting driving from one service area to the next at a slow speed.
it took about one hour. The return trip took another hour. I could drive southampton to inverness in 12 hours. I could not do the M4 protest for 12 hours.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

You mean like the new games forced upon us such as 'watch the speedo', 'find the hidden camera', 'count the camera signs'?

I have one which may be unique, it's called 'analyse the spark plugs'. While going through a rather long 20mph zone on a Sunday recently my car decided it wasn't happy, it was misfiring and would pull back and then suddenly lurch forward, sometimes taking it just over the 20mph. I began thinking about my gaps and wondering if I would get done for 'lurching'.

Note to any prospective trolls: please choose a more memorable user name to help me keep a look out for your posts.

Something like "the sensible majority" would do nicely.

I do have trouble understanding the sentiment that it's not possible to stay alert at the legally posted speed. If you are tired, perhaps external stimuli is required to keep levels of attention up ... but if you are tired, enough to allow your attention to wander, then speeding up is possibly the worst thing you could do.

Overuse of reduced speed limits is an issue and a concern, though - previously, if an apparently fast road had a speed restriction on it, the thought process would be "aha, there must be a reason, perhaps around this bend there is a semi blind turning, or a pedestrian crossing" but with reductions being used more and more frequently as a sop to local residents (or more likely, local press) or as an alternative to proper road engineering ("this bend is unsafe for large vehicles in the wet at 60mph. Lets make it 30mph all the time, for all vehicles" instead of "this bend is not suitable for this road. How can we make it more suitable?"), then the mental process is changed and the real dangers in some of the reduced speed areas are missed. This is one of the reasons I'd like to see "Accident Black Spot" signs used - sparingly - as well as the right to appeal against speed limits.

That's my 0.016 Euro cents anyway.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Have a look at: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/arousal.html

The main concern is that overly low speed limits are likely to move drivers outside their zone of optimal performance.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Good points well made, handy.
I also feel that too much "crying wolf" has devalued potentially relevant warning signs etc.
I especially agree with the bolded text.

I've more-or-less given up on "warning" signs - especially those on the motorway and I find myself taking an increasingly relaxed view of new speed-limits, which is worrying... I've gone back to driving the "old-fashioned" way - based on what I can see.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Can I suggest an experiment.

Find an empty stretch of motorway, preferably late at night when there is nobody around to hit, and drive in L1 at a constant 56mph for a long distance, say Southampton -> Liverpool. Assume you have no cash/cards and have to get home on what's left in the tank (which is how I managed to end up performing this particular stunt, damn thieving Southampton chavs)

I give you an hour before you hit the rumble strip or drift into L2.

I'm already a very high mileage driver, and I already do long, long stretches at 56mph to 60mph. Guess what - I can stay awake! I don't drive tired, if I feel tired I will stop for a coffee or even a longer rest.

On Top Gear once, Jeremy Clarkson did a journey from London to London on one tank of fuel (via Edinburgh) and said that the concentration it took was phenomenal - if everyone had that much concentration, there would be no crashes. So he managed 800 miles at around 50mph and he didn't: so it's not just me that can do this sort of thing. I'd take your bet but there's no challenge in it!!

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

The reason I get tired and less attentive when sticking to a lower-than-necessary speed limit is that my normal calculations of what is an appropriate and safe speed are done instantly in brain 'machine code'. But the process of checking the dial against the current posted limit is done in (metaphorical) higher level interpreted language. Not only does the latter use extra attention resources, but it also uses even more resources to convert between the two thinking saystems and employ them both side by side.

Personal Observations but I find that I am far more attentive and alert at 100mph than at 70mph.

I do get 'bored' i suppose when driving at a low speed.

I think the idea that driving faster keeps you alert has to be treated with extreme care. Your rate of progress along the road at which you are fully occupied with reading and adjusting your speed for potential hazards may be lower than that at which you feel interested/stimulated while driving.

Sorry if this is obvious or contentious, I am new here please be gentle