Safe Speed Forums

OK I've finally got round to posting this one, (it's quite lengthy)....

The single scariest moment I've had when driving was about 4-5 years ago. Heading north along the A627(M) nr Oldham, I'm in L1 approaching an oncoming slip road, (this road is a DC btw), and travelling at about 70mph. I notice a car heading down the slip road and my judgement of his position and speed suggested he was going to hit the main carriageway at the same spot as me. It was a fairly empty road so I pulled over to L2 to let him on.
Sure enough he got on, about a car's length in front of me. I'd just started to accelerate past him when for some inexplicable reason he started to cut across into L2 - when I was next to him .
What happened next is a bit of a blur but my snap decision was that if I brake I'd hit him*, (I was accelerating at this point and was virtually parallel with him). So the alternative I took was to veer right, towards the central reservation barrier - by a massive stroke of luck there was a couple of feet of grass before the barrier at this point, although still a kerb of a few inches. I recall whacking the kerb and travelling along the grass a short distance, then glancing in the mirror to see debris flying about, (by this point I'd more or less passed the guy). Brought the car back onto the road, and just remember thinking "I'm OK, the car is still going, I'm in the clear now"
Anyway, we both pulled over to the hard shoulder and although I was a bit shaken at this point I couldn't help but notice his guilty look as he got out his car. And it turned out the debris I saw was his wing mirror being ripped off (he just caught the passenger door of my car). We sorted it all out amicably, but I think the cause was his failure to check his over-the-shoulder blindspot - I must have just hit it perfectly for him not to notice. Ever since this incident though, I've been overly-paranoid about blind-spot checking when switching lanes. To be honest I think I over-do it out of habit on occasions and take a bit too much attention away from the road in front. Just something I need to work on I guess.

* In restrospect braking and sounding the horn may have had a better result. I just don't know. At the time I'd only held my license for four years, but if the same thing happened today I may have been able to totally avoid any incident. Certainly was a learning experience as well as probably the most frightening 5 seconds of my life.

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

Loads of issues here...

From Nemesis' perspective,

- I'd probably honk to try to stop him coming
- I'd probably brake because brakes change speed faster and because any resulting impact then takes place at a lower speed.
- But the biggest 'protection' is to suspend overtaking near sliproads or other hazards. If we aren't alongside we can't be sideswiped whatever the other chap does, and too many other chaps change lanes carelessly around slip roads.

About the blind spot...

- Drivers are not taught to deal with the blind spot adequately. Mostly we learn after near miss experiences.
- The angle of the slip road makes the blind spot much larger in typical circumstances. (Picture the line of rightmost vision leaving the mirror heading rearwards - when you TURN THE CAR a bit clockwise (as it is when you're square in the slip but at an angle to the main road) - you see much less.)

About checking our own blind spots...

- Get into the habit of an over-the-shoulder check before changing lane. It should have been MSSM... Mirror, Signal, Shoulder-Check, Manoeuvre.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

To minimise blind spots, I angle my wing mirrors slightly outwards.
Basically, I adjust the drivers side mirror so that I can just see the side of the car with my head against the window, and the passenger side mirror in a similar fashion.
I find that when a car is passing me on either side, by the time it disappears from my rear-view mirror it's already visible in one of the wing mirrors, and before it disappears from the wing mirror it's already visible with a quick sideways glance.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I try to be aware of other people's blind spots too, if I'm in someone's potential blind spot then I'll asume they don't know I'm there and will try and drive into me.

Or should I say, it's not just about how visible they are to you, it's about how visible you are to them.

(sounds like I know what I'm talking about, huh?)

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Andrew.

Ahh, this is interesting and something that I've been meaning to bring up. Angling the mirrors out is the leading recommendation in a number of countries - notably the USA. I'm not aware of much in the way of UK recommendations on the issue.

I tried it and didn't like it. I felt my judgement was affected. Possibly I could learn to adapt to the new setting, but (and this is the real reason for posting) I feel that being able to see the side of my own vehicle in the mirror gives a 'vector' that I use for distance and direction judgement.

I note that moving around in the seat moves objects in the mirror, but not their position relative to the reflection of the side of the vehicle.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It did take some getting used to, but now I wouldn't have it any other way.
It was a similar case when I first started driving with glasses - my judgement went horribly awry for a while, but I quickly got used to it. Not before I'd scraped my mirror several times pulling into the garage though

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Understood - but try this problem. I've adjusted the mirror out, and I can no longer see my own vehicle in it. If I move my head, the image in the mirror appears to move as the angle changes. If I can't see my own vehicle, how can I possibly know about the relative position (and path by implication) of any vehicle in the mirror? I suggest we have no adequate reference...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

In the past I've often moved the mirrors outwards slightly when driving at night, so as to reduce glare. My thinking here is that at night you are always aware of vehicles behind from beam scatter, and if you want to actually look at them you can always move your head toward the mirror slightly.

As an aside, how important is the ability to judge the exact relative position of an overtaking vehicle? The primary goal of using a mirror is simply to become aware of the presence of another vehicle. If I know a car is there *somewhere* I'll be pretty sure I won't run into it just because the mirror doesn't give me an accurate frame of reference; but on the other hand if positioning the mirror for greater accuracy means missing "blind spot" vehicles completely all bets are off.

As Paul says, the issue of blind spots isn't anywhere near adequately covered in the HC or (as far as I know) in standard driver training. How many drivers actually consider the possibility of there being two blind spots, ie one between the rear view mirror and the door mirror, and the second between the door mirror and the peripheral side vision. Ideally all three views should overlap, but if they don't it is extremely helpful to have a mental image of the areas where they don't, such that when you do that over-the-shoulder "lifesaver" you actually look in the right place! Should you be looking at 4 o'clock, 5 o'clock etc????

Does anyone else have the same as my car, ie a narrow band of mirror on the outside edge of the wing mirror that is convex and angled away from the car, so that you have a narrow additional view of the "wide angle" blindspot. These are extremely good, as with care I can get complete "blind spot" coverage (though my years as a motorcyclist still lead me to do a semi-automatic "lifesaver" when changing lanes).

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

That's an interesting question. I feel very strongly that it does matter quite a bit, but I don't really know why. It might be to do with path angle (coming closer / moving further away laterally). It might be to do with building a picture across multiple mirrors. It might be to do with an accurate picture of spare space. It might be to do with being set in my ways.



I hate them. If you use them it will become a habit and sooner or later you'll be driving something with basic mirrors trusting to the damn feature that isn't there.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yes, my current car has this style of wing-mirror and it can be a big help, esp when merging onto a motorway from a slip-road. With this, I don't really have any blind spots during straight motorway cruising - can see any passing car in my peripheral vision before it is out of view in the wing mirror. However I still religiously glance over my shoulder before any lane switch. The worst blind-spot scenario I find, is a slip road that bends to the left as it joins a main carriageway. Sometimes, even a prolonged glance over your shoulder doesn't give a clear view; and in fairness that is exactly the shape of slip road in the incident I described on this post.

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?