Safe Speed Forums

Not at all. But it was dry enough that I thought that the lurkers might need clarification.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I know you're talking about a simplified version, and also that you don't necessarily recognise that the driver should be held to blame, But I'd just like to point out why the driver should not be held to blame purely because of his speed.

An any particular situation where a collision takes place, there is no connection between the speed the car was travelling at and the collision speed. You cannot deduce the one from the other without taking into account a myriad of other, mostly random, factors which are beyond the drivers control.
If the driver was doing 30mph he might have had time to reduce his speed to 15mph before impact. If he was doing 40mph he also might have seen the drunk a half a second earlier, and so might have brought his speed down to 5mph before impact. If he was doing 20mph he also might have been looking somewhere else and not seen the drunk at all, and so hit him at the full 20mph.

_________________
Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Is there any evidence that bars have been prosecuted in the US over drunken pedestrians?

And what if he had been drinking at home?

If bars end up being held responsible for the state of their customers (beyond the current UK legal requirement not to serve obviously drunk people), then it will simply tend to move consumption to private premises where it is less supervised.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Weeell... The most important definition (for us) is the one used in support of crash contributory factors, and in that case excessive speed is defined as: speed that is in excess of a speed limit OR inappropriate for the conditions.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

yes, and australia as well.

Sadly PeterE yes, a particularly annoying side effect of this is that bartenders stop serving you in the US when you have only had a few beers. It's the wonderful thing about a society of blame!

Anyway, back on track. I think this sort of answers the question, although as pointed out, there could be a myriad of random factors involved. The chances are that our driver would be to blame for his excessive speed. But only if he was a member of a cricket team

Sorry, that post really made me chuckle.

I should point out that I am IAM advanced, and therefore always apply the driving system. However I believe what we are discussing is not the top 5% of drivers (as most posters here seem to be) it is the other 95% of motorists who have never sought any further instruction.

Sorry Odin, I mistyped my post - it should have been clearer.
The drunk was the member of the cricket team!

My point was that the story we see in the press often tells only part of the story, and nobody is prepared to speak up and say the drunk was... DRUNK, and caused his own accident, while the driver only contributed to the severity.

It ALWAYS says, a car collided with a pedestrian, or the pedestrian was in a collision with a vehicle. Not "Mr X of Little Carbuncle on the Naze walked in front of a car while under the influence".

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

No my fault, this reading malarky obviously letting me down again

And therein lies the problem, we are all (society I mean) too eager to find a simple solution that is politically correct. Whereas the truth may be complicated and not well recieved.

We also have to consider the influence of the worst few percent of drivers. Their behaviour and their crashes are especially important in the context of this thread.

Imagine loonies racing. They crash at high speed. The crash is listed as 'excessive speed'. Imagine a totally out of control drunk. He doesn't slow at all for a bend and crashes. The crash is listed as 'excessive speed'.

Many 'excessive speed' crashes fit this general pattern. There's an 'attitude failure' that causes BOTH the high speeds AND the crashes. It's not the speed in any direct sense that causes the crash - it's the attitude...

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety