Safe Speed Forums

Back on topic, here's an interesting newspaper article...

Lincolnshire Echo

Mind you, some of the names of folk adding comments seem a little suspicious: Don Kiddick, Norma Stitz etc...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Ok, I've just gotten home from work to find about 5 or 6 additional pages in this thread, a lot of which seems to consist of bickering which I've skimmed so apologies if I misspoints already made.

I should probably clarify the "stealth overtake" as Basingwerk likes to call it with a few points.

1) You only need to use such a technique with a very particular type of driver, it is not something I do on a regular basis

2) The manouvre is only "stealth" if the driver in front is the kind of driver who never looks in their rear view mirror. When setting up for this manouvre anyone who is paying attention will see the car behind (ie. me) moving a little further across to better observe the road ahead as well as seeing me accelerate

3) The 50 every, unobservent driver will not do any of this, and will only notice the overtake when you actually get alongside them. The normal reaction to this kind of activity would be to begin composing a letter to the Daily Mail or local newspaper about the youth of today but since that can't happen while driving they instead attempt to thwart this young scallywag themselves. This is proably why Jamie (I think it was) doesn't get the issue when his grey hair is visible

Dear me, you really haven't grasped this at all, have you? All I said in reply to your assertion that it was "tough shit" to be stuck behind was "Might it not be more considerate to pull over?" This was not "arguing with" what you said, it was merely putting forward another, rather more civilised, point of view. You then extrapolated from this statement to come up with the rather bizarre posting to which I am replying.

Have you ever considered becoming a New Labour politician? I really think you might shine in the job.

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Save a cow - eat a vegetarian

I think all this misunderstanding comes from the difference between being "stuck behind", and being "stuck in front". When you are stuck in front, pulling over is a good idea - I think that is what you mean.

But I am talking about being stuck behind, not in front, and it does you no good to pull over, although it might be good for the bloke behind you! Basically, as I said originally, if you are stuck behind, it's tough shit.

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I stole this .sig

Basingmate As people have said already - if you drive to COAST - you meet the Smooth, Systematic, SAFE, Sparkling criteria of the IAM etc.

However, since people do carjack and a laptop on a back seat, musical instrument on a back seat , these attract.

More to the point .. all those items are potential missiles if you did have to pull up sharper than normal for any reason. Hence .. best secured in the boot! And I mean secured ,

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

If someone wishes to overtake you basingmate.. just let them. Create the space in front and just let them move out of your way. That way they won't uspet you. If they are breaking the speed limit by a wide margin .. their licence and bank balance at risk. Why add to the danger by preventing an overtake? Better to let them go rather than be sucked into their potential near miss or whatever.

If our lads and lasses see anyone driving, riding, cycling like a complete : t: censored: t - we take appropriate action.

Good driving is COAST led. Your actions at any one time affect someone else and if you deliberately hold up traffic by driving well below a speed limit with no apparent logic for doing so - this is just as inconsiderate driving as driving well in excess of that limit.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I refuse to get taken in with the rather more 'controversial' posters but I did find this which seems relevant (courtesy of turbobloke):





My take on slow drivers: It seems to me that many slow drivers do so deliberately just to wind up other drivers. I say this because of the number of times the overtakees suddenly speed up when I pass – sometimes as I pass they make an obvious effort to keep up (the rising engine revs and the crunch of gears are a dead giveaway). Therefore I agree with the sentiments of the former traffic officer.

I’m so glad I drive a ‘responsive’ car - no need for a ‘stealth overtakes’ (I usually do it with all lights blazing).

Excessive speed causes 38% of ALL death and injury collisions - wow! its gone up from a third!!!

I wonder if lincolnshire road safety coordinator = SCP boss?

Perhaps you need to - I've found myself agreeing with all your recent posts!

Good advice, if ever I heard any. Perhaps I take a more humane view of ‘other drivers’ than some do anyway - I do leave a long gap where I should, even when that is abused - I couldn't give a hoot about two seconds.

Now. Moving forwards, I want to try to distinguish between well-meaning folks, and the type of driver who thinks “I’m perfect, and they’re a bunch of slowpokes, DA-DA-DI-DA-DA”!

In my view, the morality of the ‘stealth overtake’ can be examined by simple rules.

First, is a given manoeuvre good for your progress and safety?

Second, is it good for the other bloke (whether he knows it or not)?

Three, is it motivated in any way by paranoia, territorialism, power trips or other male competitive instincts (a complete give-away)?

And four, would it diminish or increase the good will of any of the people involved?

Up to now, we have mostly dwelt on the first two aspects. I’d like to move the discussion on to power-motivations and good will – I think we know it’s an issue. Can competitive types drive on public roads using their brains, and not their bollocks?

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I stole this .sig

You seem to have a fixation about this. I have a sub-100 bhp car and would consider myself a cautious driver, yet I very rarely find myself being overtaken on rural roads. This "aggressive overtaking" seems to exist mainly in your own mind. In fact most of the aggressive driving I see occurs in inner-urban areas.

Will you accept that there is nothing wrong with well-judged and well-planned overtaking?

If people take offence at that, it is their own fault, not the overtaker's.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Of course, PeterE, but my key issue in this case is that the overtaker later came to this web site to boast about how being flashed by his “victims”!!

Does that demonstrate concern about mature, ethical driving, or his concern with his own, immediate gratification?

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I stole this .sig

It suggests to me a rather anal attitude on the part of the overtaken. If you choose to drive more slowly than the general traffic flow, you need to accept being overtaken in good grace.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Pogo says he was once a driving instructor - perhaps he taught this bloke! Just joking pogo, before you get on your high horse! But my point is that fast overtakers and slow overtaken all should subscribe to ethical driving. We pay it little heed, yet it is what makes the road system work. And the bible of ethical driving is (you guessed it) the highway code, which some here are keen to ignore. Could the reason sometimes be related to selfishness, which is the usual corrupter of ethical behaviour?

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I stole this .sig

I strongly subscribe to the principle of ethical driving - although I cannot regard nudging over the speed limit as a cardinal sin.

Jesus Christ memorably said "do as you would be done by", and, while not a religious person, that is a principle I abide by in my driving. And, if I am driving below the speed limit for whatever reason (admiring the scenery, or taking a maiden aunt out for a run) I will do my best to help others who want to overtake me.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Do you, for example, succumb to the need to boast about getting flashed by other drivers? How many times have you bragged here in that way? A URL would suffice.

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I stole this .sig

I don't recall any example of being flashed by other drivers.

Although, despite my modestly-powered car, I find myself far more often as the overtaker than the overtaken.

Spin it up to 4000+ revs and it does shift a bit

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I'm not so sure... I attribute it more to the "sheep" mentality. The ones that I see doing it appear to be not very competant and not at all good at selecting their speed, so they tend to err on the side of (excessive) caution. Once you've gone past, assuming that you've not gone by at a massive speed differential, I reckon they then just follow you, letting you select the speed for them, which is fine as long as you're going at a speed that is within their ability.


They're the dangerous ones. It's just as dangerous and inconsiderate to do that sort of stupid trick as is the kami-kasi overtake.

Anyway, I'm back from a pleasant weekend in Wales. I decided to undertake an experiment on my trips there and back, it's actually a journey that I do very regularly, so I have quite a good amount of "data" to base my comparisons on. I decided to take Basingwerk's advice and "chill out, slow down and get with the program" - Friday afternoon's traffic was ideal for this. Instead of overtaking as I would normally do, I simply plodded along at the prevailing speed of the traffic, only overtaking very slow vehicles (tractors and the like) when it came to "my turn" as the queue in which I was travelling finally negotiated the hazard...

Results:

1. Despite leaving plenty of room for an overtaker, I was overtaken very infrequently - quite surprising considering that we rarely went much over 40mph.

2. I found it very stressful... Speeding up and slowing down for no apparent reason, as others in the queue jumped on their brakes also for no apparent reason. Reducing speed to less than 30mph (in an NSL) almost every time we encountered a bend that required the wheel to be turned more than about 10 degrees.

3. It was boring beyond belief - I had trouble keeping awake...!

4. A journey that normally takes around an hour and a half took two and a half.

5. Nobody in the queue thought it necessary to do anything other than obey speed limits through built-up areas... Classic example, the little village of Cemmaes has, for some reason known only to the CC, a speed limit of 40mph. I never go through the village at more than about 25, frequently less than that, it's just not safe... Yet "my" 45mph queue trundled straight through at 45 - in fact the only pleasant part of the trip was catching them back up again after coming out of the village, as I'd slowed to my normal "safe speed" going through and hence had a couple of miles of clear road...

6. Most annoying of all - my fuel consumption was about 20% worse!. I normally average 37-38mpg on this trip as I tend to accellerate briskly to my cruising speed then amble along at 60 to 70 on a light throttle in 5th gear (slowing of course to around the limit for built-up areas, and for the odd tight or poor-visibility bend). Most of this trip was instead done in 3rd and 4th (and not infrequently 2nd!!) as the poor little car chugs quite pathetically at anything less than about 50 in 5th, and the continual speedup/slow down on straight roads is very wasteful of energy - so I got slightly less than 30mpg.

So... All-in-all, I think I'll stick to my unreconstructed "speed-crazed-fiend" approach, it's less stressful, quicker, smoother and cheaper!

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

My brother is anally-retentive about the speed limit. He never breaks it, yet he knows he is causing hold-ups, congestion and frustration... I've been with him in the car (as a passenger) and it's enough to want me to slit my wrists - he knows full well the road he is on is perfectly safe for 50-60mph but refuses point-blank to go over the signed 30mph. He knows there's a 1/2 mile tailback behind him, but he won't speed up!

My point is, not ALL slow drivers do it deliberately to wind other road users up - my brother does it "because it's the law".

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus