Safe Speed Forums

There was a story in the County Press on 5/5 about a young woman who failed her driving test because she complied with an advisory "20's plenty" sign in a 30 zone.

I wish I could cite the article directly, but it isn't online and I don't have a copy of it anymore, but it is referenced in a letter this week.

These signs are a total disgrace. They look just like real 20 limit signs, except that the circular border is dark green instead of red: but in poor light it looks grey, so it could easily be assumed to be legally enforcable to the average driver. I have been getting pissed off with them for a while: one set is in a 40 limit in Wippingham where 40-45 is a very appropriate speed and 20 would be sheer lunacy even on a bicycle.

Any thoughts? Is there anyone to complain to? I can pretty much guess the council's response without wasting a stamp for the privelege.

The letter writer's response is a text book example of how the message that the number on the lollipop is your absolute guide to safety is getting through and causing complete confusion and frustration.

This sounds like utter madness!

20s plenty in a 40mph limit? Surely, a 20 in a ring implies the 20 is mandatory - (ie circles give orders, triangles warn, rectangles inform) its not something I would like to gamble if there was a traffic police car behind or If I were taking my driving test.

If I approached someone driving 20mph in a 40mph limit (taking into account road conditions etc) my first reaction would be think they had been drinking then think "what a crap driver" - Finally, my reaction would be to overtake them.

Has to be a red circle though, shape alone isn't sufficient to convey mandatory status.

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Chris

True enough, but your average driver who isn't an avid Safe Speed/Pepipoo reader probably isn't going to know that.

"20's plenty" eh?

I wonder where it's going to end. The way we're heading you can look forward to seeing, "9's fine", or even "7's heaven". Perhaps, eventually culminating with. "4's more"

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Just reading the Highway Code would be enough to know this...



...so yeah, I guess it's just SS/PP/PH/insert other driving forum here readers then

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Chris

I feel sorry for the significant number of colour-blind drivers in the affected area!

Disability Rights Commission?

I suspect that those signs might violate the Disability Discrimination Act 2005. Under that Act defects is colour-vision are disabilities. Until now, the colour blind have been able to identify signs because different signs are different in greyscale. However, if the "20's plenty" sign looks the same as a mandatory 20 lollipop when both are reduced to greyscale, the "20's plenty" is a clear discrimination against protanopics and deuteranopics. BTW, one in eight of all males have defective colour vision, so it's not as if this only affects a very small percentage.

I've just found a picture of one of those signs here and reduced it to greyscale, except for the border that makes it a non-sign, I think that a colour-deficient person would not be able to tell the difference between that and a mandatory 20. Now "colour blindness" is not notifiable to DVLA and their medical rules specifically exclude colour blindness. So, they've considered the condition and ruled that it does not affect driving ability. Now some numpties come along and introduce signs that compromise that state of affairs

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Will

What about old speed limit signs where the red ring has washed away over time, leaving just a white circle with a "30" in the middle? Are these legally enforcable?

Certainly not.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I am colour blind and can confirm that when driving I would assume the circle was red unless you put it right next to a real red one in which case I may spot the difference.

I would probably recognise it was green if I stopped and stared at it from close range in good light - not terribly practicle and it might annoy other drivers.

1's Fun????

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Zero's for heroes?

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Will

All good communal conformity mantras...
- twenty's plenty
- speed kills
- four legs good, two legs bad

Now where did I hear that last one ?

I have recently seen one of these green 20mph signs in lincolnshire, it covered the 100 yards or so outside a school

It resembled a normal 20 mph speed limit zone sign on a rectagonal plate, however there were 2 noable exceptions:

1) the ring was green

2) It clearly said "ADVISORY SPEED LIMIT" immediately underneath the ring

hence there was no confusion; however i can see how confusion would arise if there were no "advisory" message underneath the limit.

[quote="supertramp
All good communal conformity mantras...
- twenty's plenty
- speed kills
- four legs good, two legs bad

Now where did I hear that last one ?[/quote]

Same place as we find "All drivers (animals) are equal , but some are more equal than others .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Whan whas the English literacy section added to the driving test?

Do they know how long it could take some people to read that?

Possibly another side effect of the proliferation of signs - or perhaps the blame lies with the instructor - most take their pupils along most of the test routes and show the pupils what to look out for- or do they ??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

wouldn't help some people. Driving down the m20 last night the signs were flashing 50. No problems there except that plod was in L1 doing 55. So every idiot and his dog was queued up behind. I come up behind the lead car in L3 and flash at him to move over into the huge gap in L2 and he starts frantically waving at me to inform me that there's a police car in L1. I just shook my head and continued on, no doubt to lots of tut-tutting from the herd.