Safe Speed Forums

Right then.
Who, here, knows what the little dotted line means?
Take, for example, the ones at the end of your road. Next to the junction there is a sign which probably says 'Give Way'. This means that you, being on a side road, need to yield to those motorists on the more major road. Simple, really. When there's a suitable space you may then enter the road without causing hardship to others.
With me so far?
Great stuff!
Now it gets difficult.
On Motorways you have slip roads to access them. Agreed?
Good!
Now then. When you next enter a motorway take a look at the end of the slip road- you know, where the slip becomes the motorway itself- and you will see similar dotted lines to the ones at the end of your residential street.
What do you think these dotted lines mean?
Come on, now, think carefully.
They mean GIVE WAY!!!! That's what they mean.
You see, motorways are major roads, slip roads are access roads which mean they are the minor roads. I don't mean they are minor like a country lane or the sidestreets where you live, but they are designed to facilitate entry to a fast moving, major highway without impeding other traffic.
They are not the pit lane on an F1 track designed to race other motorists.

Now it gets really difficult, so I suggest you roll a ciggie, make some coffee and come back in a few minutes.

How about 'lane markings' hmmm?
I can hear the gears grinding in peoples minds. Come on, folks, think now.
Describe these lines to yourselves. White, dotted. Sound familiar at all? If your answer is no then return to the top of the page and begin again.
If they do sound familiar then read on.
An example. You are driving down a slip road at 60 mph. Traffic is moving freely but is heavy. You check your blind spot and signal to join the motorway but there is a heavy truck in lane 1 with his signal flashing to go out to lane 2 in order to allow you onto the motorway.
The truck has to wait until there is a space in lane 2 for him to go.
This means he has to cross the dotted white line which means he has to yield to traffic in that lane.
Those dotted white lines mean....?

They mean "GIVE WAY" regardless of where they are.

They do not mean STOP. Those lines are solid, not dotted.
They do not mean GO HELL FOR LEATHER AND SOD THE REST OF THE WORLD. To the best of my knowledge, there are no lines to signify this.

If people were to remember this simple rule of thumb there would be fewer accidents and far less stress.

I think I'm ranting.

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Once a Cornishman, always a Cornishman

Lines mean different things in different situations.

Joining a motorway means 'give priority' to traffic already there, but adjust speed to merge.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.htm#227

Of course, there is sometimes the idiot who wont let you merge. But that's life, there's always an idiot. Amount of times I've ended up on the hard shoulder, and often it isn't any lorry.

If someone's joining the motorway in front of you, and you can't change lanes, gently adjust your speed, let them in. If the motorway's that crowded, the race isn't on anyway.

Give Priority/ Give Way.

There's a difference?

Lines mean the same regardless of the situation.

A broken line means cross when it is clear to do so, whether it is a give way line or a lane divider.
Solid lines mean do not cross. Now the pedants will say that this must mean they have to sit at a stop line forever. The solid centre lines mean the same as a stop line really.
It is a major discourtesy to charge down the slip and expect someone to let you out. Why do you think there are so many accidents and queues?

As for the race, it shouldn't exist. Life isn't a race. It's an adventure. If it were a race then I would want to come last. I don't want to reach that chequered flag.

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Once a Cornishman, always a Cornishman

About the race bit, that was sort of my point.

With a give-way, you are expected to stop if there is cross-traffic. Joining a main road (trunk/A/Motorway) you are not, you should merge.

Of course, you have to rely upon the fact that those on the (i.e.) motorway know they should slow down and let you merge.

There are a lot of different lines on the road, some rather similar, which have different meanings.
And if you want to see them then have a look here:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm
Do a search for "Image 111 of 337 - Diagrams 1001 to 1001.1" and you can go through all the road markings.

But basically the advice "solid line = do not cross, broken lines = you can cross if it is safe" seems to fit all situations. Except for the exceptions where you are allowed to cross a solid line.

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Andrew.

This is one of the reasons I stopped visiting this forum. Everyone seems to interpret the rules in a way to suit themselves. If they read the text as it is actually printed then there can be no misinterpretation.

Quote from the highway code:

Joining the motorway
233: When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

- give priority to traffic already on the motorway
- check the traffic on the motorway and adjust your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
- not cross solid white lines that separate lanes
- stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
- remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

Where in the above text does it mention the traffic already on the carriageway making any compensation for traffic joining?

The rule is simple. It is up to the joining vehicle to adjust its speed accordingly in order to merge into traffic already on the carriageway. If there is no space then they should either stop at the end of the slip road or continue on the hard shoulder (Although this is not advised).

The rules are out there for all to see and the sooner everyone refreshes their memories, by reading the highway code again, the better. Too many people on this forum are making up their own rules and advising others that they are correct, even moderators are getting it wrong which to me is farcicle.

I would sugest that you do make compensation for other traffic. Not to do so could be life shortening. If an italian left hand drive artic is trying to join , I would sugest that you compensate enough to let him in.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I always thought that was what being a good driver was all about as well.

I know we have the "rule book" that states what road markings mean, etc....but surely anybody with more than one active brain cell will realise that the "rule book" shouldn't be taken as gospel and you simply deal with a situation as it arises and compensate accordingly for it.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

So basically to move across a dotted line you must give way to whatever is on the other side of the dotted line first. Sounds simple enough, but some people just perform dangerous manoevures and then look at you when you beep your horn as if you are an idiot.

..i could have sworn give ways were two dashed lines.. whilst the merges on sliproads are single.

Please tell me you are not one of those idiots that do not allow vehicles to merge, or even worse, stops at the end of the slip road!

The vehicle on the slip road has to adjust his speed, but the vehicles on the motorway have to adjust their speed too.

If we all followed the "racetrack pit lane" rule, there would be far fewer accidents on slip roads. If you see someone trying to join the motorway, you let them in. It is common sense as it is easier for you to know the speed you are approaching them at, rather than for who joins to guess the speed you are approaching them at.

And what about thos Basta*ds who accelerate and restrict the gap when they see someone trying to join the motorway? They are causing way more danger than the one trying to join.

I now make a point of joining the motorway at a speed even higher than the 3rd lane traffic, just so I can get into a gap before the idiot behind decides to show off how good his knowledge of the rulebook is.

For the first time the other day I joined the motorway at the same speed as the guy in the inside lane. He did not move lanes (although he could consedering it was empty), I was well ahead of him, used the entire slip road and indicated, but instead he accelerated and got to my side as I was joining. That is an idiot who acts before thinking!

To put this bluntly. I think some of the points being raised here are directly from "the rules" and the rest of the points can be summarised as "don't be a twat about it"

If someone wants to merge it's hardly going to slow you down so you may as well let them. In heavy traffic, it could be ages before someone else comes along that's nice enough to consider letting someone in.

If, two lanes merge into one, and one lane has prioity then again, let one vehicle join from the other lane. If it's 3 into one then let one in from each lane, then find the traffic planner responsible and shoot them.

Overall it is better for traffic flow to do those two things, and makes everyone's journey faster on average.

Forgive me if i'm wrong, BOSS, but isn't the whole point of a forum a place for people with different views and opinions on things to discuss them? Individuals are bound to agree and disagree with eachother, its the nature of a forum.

A wise man once said that if someone's heading for your space, the safest thing is not to be there when they arrive!

Now for something that you might have missed:Notice the word should - it means that the points that follow are merely advisory. They are what the good driver does, and what failure to do might be interpreted as driving without due care and attention, but there is no explicit legal requirement to give way to traffic already on the motorway. Had there been, the Highway Code would have said, "You MUST give priority " etc.

Something perhaps that you should also consider: if there is a collision, the courts will take the view that you are at least partly to blame if you failed to drive as a "good driver" would. Now good drivers tend not to get all pedantic about whether they have priority - they tend to do what is necessary to keep themselves and others safe.

Just a thought...

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Will

You are still making up your own rules. I am not trying to describe my driving or what I would do in any situation. I was explaining the rules as they are printed.
Yes I do move over sometimes, yes I do sometimes accelerate/decelerate to let the "I don't know what I'm doing" mob join the motorway.

Why, when I simply quote the rules as they are printed, do you always get the I'm so holy squad reading deeper into the post than they should.
Why are people trying to suggest that my driving is not of the highest quality? did I mention my driving or anything that I had done in my post?

Please stick to the facts here and accept that is is TOTALLY the responsibility of the person joining the motorway to either increase or decrease their speed to that of the traffic already on the motorway. That is the ruling and that is that. We can all interpret our own way of reading it and make up our own mind whether we are going to be fair and let people join but the rule is the rule so please don't try to change it.

@T2006 - Yes this is the essence of the forum, to let people air their views and opinions as varied as they may be but we should not air our own versions of the rules as they are printed which is what is going on here. Doing this could be very costly to someone who is trying to join the motorway with the wrong version of what should happen.

I think rather than telling people what they "should" do at slip roads we should be telling people what "we" do at slip roads. This way nobody is stating any rules and the rules are not being bent to suit.

Most good responsible drivers have the decency and foresight to drive so as to make it easier for themselves and other road users. Sadly there are the muppets who think you "must" move over and this is where things start going pear shaped. It is not always possible to move over as you all know. The vehicle in the lane to the right of you sometimes just has to get home and letting you pull out is simply not an option.

It apears that those wombles AKA higway agency vehicles have been instructed to under no crcumstance are they to leave L1 regardeless of L2 or indeed L3 is empty or not. Those F**kin arses have nearly caused pile up because of their complete disregard of road courtesy, especially when it comes to joining motorways,They are just health and safety pricks sticking to the letter of the law... well kind of !! --> http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7919

No I am not.

Highway code, 136: Once moving you should

- be aware of other vehicles especially cycles and motorcycles. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them [the other vehicles, AN] plenty of room, especially if you are driving a long vehicle or towing a trailer

Say that a vehicle is joining the motorway, it has identified a safe gap and it is entering that gap: wouldn't you adjust your speed to make sure that you keep a safe distance to not just the vehicle in front but also the vehicle that is entering?

As you can see, I am not making up my own rules.

And to be honest, you don't need to look up the highway code, but just use COMMON SENSE.

I also asked you to confirm to me you are not one of those drivers, because from your ranting about it, I guessed you were trying to make a point that you don't let people in. And therefore I wanted you to confirm or deny that guess.

Also, just to rectify your obvious distorted view of the world:

Stopping
244: You MUST NOT stop on the carriageway, hard shoulder, slip road, central reservation or verge except in an emergency, or when told to do so by the police, an emergency sign or by flashing red light signals.
MT(E&W)R regs 7(1),9,10 & 16 & MT(S)R regs 6(1),8,9 & 14

Lane discipline
238:
You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by signs.
MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a) & MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a)

Hence why the vehicles on the motorway *should* adjust their speed in order to prevent *emergency* situations!

What's stopping you from slowing down? You get a fair bit of warning at most junctions that there's an on-slip up ahead (the off-slip that usually precedes them is a bit of a give away ), so by the time you actually get to the point at which the on-slip merges with L1 you should have been able to either get into a position where you can move over into L2 if necessary, actually have moved over into L2, or have opened up enough of a gap ahead/behind you to allow someone to merge into L1 without conflict.

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Chris

Been watching this -- all i can see is people argueing about "who has right of way/ he or she should do this or that - the rules say this or that " -- now lets look at it from a slightly different angle - junctions are signed (in most cases , except for cases like J9 M6, IN THIS CASE 2/3 MILE) ---so there's plenty of advanced warning - if you're in L1 with nothing else around - i.e empty motorway - little hardship to look out for someone coming on , a fellow motorist - show a little courtesy - the old fashioned spirit of the road ( unless the spirit has evapourated) or think that maybe in a little distance - i may need courtesy from him -
Busy motorway , create a gap in front - you never now ---he might just barge right in or he might like some courtesy - and again - a mile or so - when you move back into L1 ,and get boxed in - he might remember and let you out.

So much easier to create harmony on the motorway by being nice - costs nothing --and i've found that in a lot of cases the reciever of a little bit of goodwill repays it several times over .
Bad feeling causes accidents - good will eases traffic flow.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on