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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 14:26 
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He's back in court today. BBC Radio Shropshire confirmed that the case has started.

I NEED news as soon as possible. If anyone hears anything, PLEASE let me know soonest. I'm on 01862 893030.

Safe Speed issued the following 'Press Briefing' yesterday at 3:00pm yesterday:

PR347: PC Mark Milton - the 159mph cop - press briefing

news: for immediate release and detailed press briefing

PC Mark Milton's speeding case will be heard again by Magistrates on Monday. He
was previously acquitted by magistrates, but on appeal the verdict was
overturned and the case sent back to the magistrates to be heard again.

Safe Speed believes that either verdict will be damaging.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "It is a tragedy that this case rumbles on.
Whatever the verdict, the world will change slightly for the worse. If
Mark Milton is found guilty, Police driving and response will be compromised.
If Mark Milton is found not guilty, public confidence in the Police will be
damaged."

<ends>

Press briefing on the key issues:
=================================

Issue 1: Is 159mph automatically dangerous?

Unlike the other issues, this one has a clear and certain answer. 159mph is
NOT automatically dangerous. If we accept a) 'dangerous' is a relative term
and b) 159mph would not be particularly dangerous on a closed test track in a
suitable vehicle, then the question really becomes: is the environment safe
enough to support a speed of 159mph? This is the real issue.

It's easy to make the mistake of comparing the safety of say 70mph to 159mph
in some unusual circumstance and conclude that 159mph must be relatively more
dangerous. For example the argument might go: 'But what if you had a tyre
failure? Wouldn't 159mph be "more dangerous" than 70mph? But a tyre failure at
70mph is potentially extremely dangerous - yet we choose to accept that danger
as part of our normal lives. The increase in danger at 159mph isn't that
great. It's real but it's rare and unusual. The real danger of speed arises
when the speed is unsuitable for the environment. So actually we'd be asking
entirely the wrong question.

Safe driving at any speed involves ensuring that the speed is suitable for the
environment. A failure to do this increases danger very markedly, and we would
correctly term the speed: "dangerous". One vital test of the safety of a speed
is to ask if it is possible to stop within the space that the driver knows to
be clear.

It's entirely possible for 15mph to be murderously fast, for example in a
crowded market street, and equally it's possible for 159mph to carry no
special risk and to be properly termed 'safe'.

A driver's primary responsibility to safety is to ensure that his speed is
appropriate to the environment.

Imagine, for example, driving faster and faster round a bend. At some speed -
a speed which is too fast for the bend - a crash becomes inevitable. We're no
longer talking about a once-in-a-lifetime tyre failure - we're talking about a
certain crash. The risk due to speed suddenly went off the scale. That's an
example of what it really means to drive 'too fast'.



Issue 2: Was 159mph on the M54 dangerous?

There might be information on the video to prove that actual danger was
present, but it doesn't seem very likely since PC Milton has already been
acquitted in another court. Any clear case of danger should have been picked
up by the previous court.

The motorway was probably deserted at the time when the highest speeds were
achieved and PC Milton would have slowed down if other road users had been
present. Or at least we hope so and expect so.

But to drive safely, you must be able to stop within the distance that you can
see to be clear. Since it was apparently dark at the time, we have to ask if
the headlights were sufficient to see a clear space ahead. It's unusual for
factory-fit main beam headlights to support speeds above about 120mph.



Issue 3: Was 80mph in a 30mph speed limit dangerous?

We don't know. It's easy to picture racing through crowded town streets, but
the reality may have been very different. Imagine leave a town area and
accelerating to 80mph just before the national speed limit signs in an
entirely rural and deserted setting. For a skilled Police driver, such a speed
could be safe, routine and entirely unremarkable.

So once again, the safety of the behaviour is entirely governed by the
circumstances.



Issue 4: Do we need the Police to be free to travel at high speeds?

Absolutely. We need officers to attend incidents as soon as safely possible.
They are trained to drive quickly and safely. Sometimes rapid response will be
a matter of life and death.



Issue 5: Is it one rule for them and another for us?

Yes. As a simple matter of fact it is. Section 87 of the Road traffic
Regulation Act 1984 grants emergency services an exemption from speed limits
under certain broadly defined circumstances.

But importantly we expect equal treatment despite the fact that the rules are
different. We expect similar degrees of discretion to be afforded to the
public and to Police officers. It's an inequality of discretion that threatens
the Police / public relationship. Read on.



Issue 6: What about the Police / public relationship?

These issues seriously threaten the good Police / public relationship because
of the different way in which discretion is applied to prosecutions. The
Public perception is that the Police receive far too much discretion, while
the public don't receive anywhere near enough.

The serious ongoing damage to the Police / public relationship is founded in
millions of unnecessary speeding prosecutions - motorists prosecuted for minor
speeding offences on occasions when they know with confidence that they were
driving safely. Stories of apparently 'extreme' Police behaviour is like a
twist of the knife.



Issue 7: What are the consequences of finding Mark Milton Guilty?

If Mark Milton is found guilty the major consequences will be as follows:

- There will be further restrictions and rules applying to Police driving.
This will cost lives because Police will take longer to arrive and will be
worrying about compliance when they should be worrying about safety.

- These restrictions will probably extend to high speed training. Effectively
the Police will in time become less skilled.

- The case will be used to further present and confirm the false 'speed is
dangerous' case that is frequently made. The truth is that speed is only
dangerous when it is also inappropriate. We MUST focus road safety efforts on
achieving appropriate speeds not legal speeds. It would be simple if the two
were the same, but they are not.

- If the Police are given their own speed limits as a consequence, criminals
will only need to drive a few miles per hour faster than the Police speed limit
to escape.



Issue 8: What are the consequences of finding Mark Milton innocent?

If Mark Milton is found innocent further damage will be done to the Police /
public relationship, with the following major effects:

- the 'them and us' culture will be extended.
- less reporting of crime
- Police road safety messages won't be trusted as much
- Police won't be trusted as much

<ends>

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The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 15:01 
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See:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 271480.stm

Says "the trial is due to last four days" so we won't expect a verdict today.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 15:06 
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PeterE wrote:
See:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 271480.stm

Says "the trial is due to last four days" so we won't expect a verdict today.


Thanks. I've been listening to BBC Radio Shropshire over the net and they said the same thing in the 3pm news. I came here to post it up, and you had got there before me. By about a minute! :)

This Internet stuff is just great for moving information about FAST!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 18:30 
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It has been said that speeding is as dangerous as a loaded gun - but we do routinely arm police in order to carry out their duties and meet a certain type of threat. Occasionally, things go awry, and more training and practice would seem to be the way to eliminate that.

I would suggest once more that screening the video in public would smooth things over once and for all.
We have already seen such driving on Police Camera Action, and admired the officers for their skills.
The episode where they took a heart from Cambridge to London for a transplant springs to mind. :idea:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 18:45 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
It has been said that speeding is as dangerous as a loaded gun........

A loaded gun is completely safe when in the hands of a responsible adult, so it is actually a good analogy :)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:04 
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smeggy wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
It has been said that speeding is as dangerous as a loaded gun........

A loaded gun is completely safe when in the hands of a responsible adult, so it is actually a good analogy :)

Not only that, but when a gun toting maniac DOES take to the streets, they dont usually photograph them, and send a FPN in the post a day or two later! :oops:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:21 
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Daily Mail

Quote:
Policeman drove at 'eyewatering speeds'
6:11pm 21st August 2006

A Shropshire police officer drove at "eyewatering speeds" reaching up to 159mph while practising his driving skills in an unmarked police car, a court has heard.

PC Mark Milton, of Telford, was clocked at high speeds by a camera system fitted to the car he was driving.

The 38-year-old was originally cleared of dangerous driving and speeding last year but the High Court overturned his acquittal and ordered a retrial.

Ludlow Magistrates' Court was shown footage taken from the camera video fitted to the Vauxhall Vectra that recorded the vehicle, driven by Milton, as being regularly travelling over 100mph on A-roads and up to 159mph on the M54 during the early hours of December 5 2003.

Pat Sullivan, prosecuting, admitted there had been some dispute over the speeds the camera had recorded but added: "The prosecution say broadly these (speeds) are accurate and we can use them as a guide."

PC Milton was travelling at eyewatering speeds," he said.

The allegations also include Milton driving at 131mph on the A5 and 91mph in 30mph areas.

Milton, who had worked for West Mercia Police for 12-and-a-half years and became an armed response officer in 1994, has always denied the allegations.

The case continues.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 09:28 
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Verdict expected today:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/25082006/140/s ... -fate.html

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:44 
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He's been found guilty of dangerous driving, apparently - news report awaited...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:47 
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Dangerous driving based solely on speed? If true, that's a very worrying precedent, especially considering a class 1 driving instructor described his driving as perfectly safe.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:52 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 284962.stm

'Absolute Discharge' despite being guilty of dangerous driving.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:54 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/5284962.stm

'Absolute Discharge' despite being guilty of dangerous driving.

Which I seem to recall is the outcome you predicted some time ago...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:19 
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I think we need to mention the "suffered enough" when the truck drivers case comes to court after 2 years 8 hearings and 2000 miles traveling! all for an alleged 13mph over the limit. or 3 mph if the signs were missing...

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:18 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 284962.stm

Quote:
Discharge for 159mph speeding Pc

A policeman who drove at 159mph on a motorway has been found guilty of dangerous driving and given an absolute discharge.

Cameras on board Pc Mark Milton's unmarked car clocked him driving at high speeds on the M54 in Shropshire.

He was originally cleared of the same charge but the High Court overturned his acquittal and ordered a retrial.

But despite his "eye watering" speeds the judge at Ludlow Magistrates' Court gave Pc Milton an absolute discharge.

District Judge Peter Wallis said the 38-year-old from Telford, Shropshire, had "suffered enough" with two-and-a-half years of court proceedings.

'Experimenting' with vehicle

The Police Federation said they were "disappointed" with the verdict and would lodge an appeal.

Ludlow magistrates were shown the footage of the West Mercia police officer speeding on the motorway at 0300 BST in a 3.2l Vauxhall Vectra on 5 December 2003.

Prosecutors said Pc Milton, described as " the creme de la creme" of police drivers, had also driven at 131mph on a nearby A-road.

Pat Sullivan, prosecuting, admitted there had been some dispute over the speeds the camera had recorded but said it was accepted they were "broadly" accurate.

During the trial, Insp David McWilliam, based at Telford police station with Pc Milton, said the constable had told him he was experimenting with the Vauxhall Vectra as he had not driven it before.

Pc Milton, an advanced driver, has always maintained he was familiarising himself with the car and the reason for his high-speed driving was to practise the skills he had learnt.

In a statement read out in court, he said: "I was advised to familiarise myself with vehicles, so when there was a need to respond at speed you were aware of its performance."

(my bold)

I foresee an awful lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth about this from BRAKE, T1650, RoadPiss etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 14:07 
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This is also a very interesting report from earlier in the trial:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 279804.stm

Quote:
Pc 'was speeding on right roads'

A policeman accused of driving at 159mph was speeding on the "right" stretches of road, a court has heard.

Pc Mark Milton is standing trial for dangerous driving and speeding after cameras on board his unmarked car clocked him driving at high speeds.

But former police driving instructor Douglas Boulton, who viewed a video of Pc Milton's driving on the day, said he saw "no problem with it at all".

Pc Milton, 38, from Telford, Shropshire, denies both charges.

Second trial

Mr Boulton, a defence witness, questioned the accuracy of the camera's speedometer and told the court that, in his experience, police officers trained on normal roads and were expected to drive "as fast as it was safe to do so".

He said advanced drivers, such as Pc Milton, were expected to keep up their skills.

"Michael Schumacher at the end of the Grand Prix season doesn't sit down and do nothing for six months - he still practises and tests because he has to keep himself at a particular level."

He said after viewing the video of Pc Milton's driving on the day: "His driving, as far as positioning, I find no problem with it at all.

"The speed when he did it, he did it in the right places."

Pc Milton, who was driving a 3.2l Vauxhall Vectra on 5 December 2003, is facing his second trial.

He was originally cleared of the same charges but the High Court overturned his acquittal and ordered a retrial.

The case was adjourned until Friday.

An interesting concept, that there are "right" roads for speeding :twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 15:23 
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Things are hopping here on the basis of this case. Safe Speed has issued two PRs:

The first at 10:59am:

PR348: Mark Milton - absolute discharge

news: for immediate release

159mph cop Mark Milton has been found guilty of dangerous driving, but was given an absolute discharge, according to reports.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "This smacks of a 'political' judgement, designed to minimise the harm to Police driver training and the Police public
relationship. It has something
for everyone, except perhaps the principles of British justice."

<ends>

And the second at 14:02:

PR349: Mark Milton - public divided by speed

news comment: for immediate release

The case of the 159mph cop, Mark Milton, decided today in Ludlow Magistrates
Court should please no one, Safe Speed warns.

PC Mark Milton was this morning convicted of dangerous driving, but handed an
absolute discharge. The defence is appealing against conviction and the case
will rumble on, doing damage every time it makes news.

Clearly the public is deeply divided about the issues. On the one hand people
are demanding PC Milton's head: 'because 159mph must surely be very dangerous';
while others are more concerned about their own experiences of speed
enforcement: 'How come he's got away with 159mph when I was convicted of 35mph
in a 30?'

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "The public is now deeply and dangerously divided
about the issues of speed, speed cameras and 'speeding drivers'. Countless
millions of pounds worth of 'speed kills' publicity has convinced many that
speed in miles per hour is the measure of safety. 'If only drivers would slow
down' they cry. But experienced drivers and Police drivers understand that
vehicle speed in miles per hours tells you little or nothing about safety."

"20 years ago the public was not sharply divided and the Mark Milton case
wouldn't even have happened, let alone made news. These days with road safety
policy focused on vehicle speeds, everyone seems to be calling for someone
else's head. Meanwhile driver quality and roads policing are in free fall."

"The greatest tragedy of all is that we have a massive focus on vehicle speeds,
when what we need is a massive focus on safe driving."

"Everyone wants safer roads, but vehicle speed is the wrong target; speed
cameras are the wrong policy; and dividing the public with propaganda was a
deadly mistake."

"You can't measure safe driving in miles per hour."

<ends>

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 17:47 
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A bit of a kick in the teeth for this guy though:

157 mph biker

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 18:02 
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Quote:
In a statement read out in court, he said: "I was advised to familiarise myself with vehicles, so when there was a need to respond at speed you were aware of its performance."

One would question that if traffic officers are required to 'familiarise' themselves with police vehicles and basically rag the nuts out of them, then why not provide them with a test track?

Dixie wrote:
A bit of a kick in the teeth for this guy though:

157 mph biker

Unfortunately for Mr Osborne, he isn't old bill by trade and he couldn't even use the age old excuse that he was practised in competition riding and therefore knew what he was doing.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 18:22 
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Gixxer wrote:
Quote:
In a statement read out in court, he said: "I was advised to familiarise myself with vehicles, so when there was a need to respond at speed you were aware of its performance."

One would question that if traffic officers are required to 'familiarise' themselves with police vehicles and basically rag the nuts out of them, then why not provide them with a test track?


Test track responses simply are not the same as road responses. Take a simple example - overtaking. No amount of race track familarity with a vehicle will inform you what it's going to be like for road overtaking.

Similar problems exist in braking and cornering - the point is that we have massively different expectations of vehicle performance on road and track.

I love to get cars on the track where I can explore a whole new side to their character.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 18:23 
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I have just changed jobs and will soon be taking delivery of my shiney new company car.

Does anyone have any objections to me 'familiarising' myself with it at 130mph on the m50?


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