Safe Speed Forums

Is there some sort of "lets make a point" cycling day on today?

On my way back from dropping my son off at the station, I was confronted (at the bottom of Radford Bank for those who know Stafford) by a slow moving queue of traffic.

At the front of this queue was a group of 4 cyclists wearing green t-shirts with some sort of slogan on them. Thery were spread out across the road blocking their half of the (single) carriageway

OK, people like to protest BUT in this case:

1 They were at at bottom of a steep hill

2 Two of them were children FFS!

3 Two vehicles behind them was AN AMBULANCE with its BLUES on!!!!!!!!!!!!! (The ambulance driver had obviously decided that as he was turning off to the right in 50 yards putting the twos on might frighten the two kids and cause and accident.) Don't these tw@ts ever look behind themselves???

I turned into my own street, parked, walked back to the end of the road - and watched them proceeding slowly up the steep hill with an ever-growing queue of cars behind them.

I'm so censoreding outraged I can hardly speak!!!!! I felt like running up the hill and laying into them! Sadly if I had by the time I got there I wouldn't have been able to.

I've phoned the local police and reported the incident

Edited to say - I just heard a bunch of sirens - I hope they're being arrested!

Not as bad as that but I ran into one earlier today.

I was approaching a t-junction at the end of a road, going to turn right. There was a lot of traffic on the main road so I was waiting a while and a cyclist I'd overtaken futher back had caught up.

He came up behind me, and waited behind for all of 5 seconds before obviously deciding he'd had enough of that and came and waited next to me. So close he was practically leaning on my passenger side mirror and of course I couldn't see left to check whether the road was clear.

After winding down the passenger side window and resiting the urge to let off some choice words I asked him to move back so I could see, he then proceeded to ride out into the main road and turn right. The road was clear so I moved out as well.

I overtook him again almost straight away, giving a bit less room than I usually would, and continued to the traffic-lighted crossroads at the end of the road where I ended up stopped at the front of the queue.

A glance in my mirror and lo and behold I see the cyclist coming down the road at about 20mph. He mounted the curb, almost hitting a pedestrian, went past the red light and out into the road, turning left, right infront of a bus that was coming straight across from the right. Luckily the driver was awake and jumped on the brakes, not that the cyclist noticed, he just roade on as if nothing had happened.

Wasn't a young kid or anything, a middle aged man in a polo shirt and no helmet.

and what do you suggest doing about it?

without that surely this thread should be in rants..... [i.e. the soapbox]

without going into each specific scenario in detail, members of all road usergroups do stupid/dangerous/inconsiderate things.

As I said, I did call the local plod. The chap I spoke was NOT dismissive in any way and said the behaviour I described warranted getting someone "to go and have a look".

He also commented that he would be concerned for the safety of the children on the bikes because this behaviour could produce bad reactions from others.

He also said that the local ambulance people often called in a report stuff like this when they got a chance.


Haven't had any feedback, but I don't regret reporting it, and I don't see this as a rant. I would have reported antisocial behaviour on this scale by anyone - motorist, cyclist or pedestrian. I hope others would do the same - I see it as promting responsible behaviour.

Where's that jobsworthy in Telford when ya really need 'im!

Now that you could call "inconsiderate" if ambulance on blues/twos was being held up.

Besides .. does Highway Code Rule 29 (the one which tell pedestrian to stay off road if some with biggest sirens ist approaching...) rule 50 (obey all road traffic signs) und rule 51 (this ist the one about "no more than two abreast) not apply?

They always waffle on that everyone else ist supposed to obey it... .. apart from "them" und these are the ones who invariably support "them".. the pee-cee nonsense brigade...

Such people though .. do not represent the types who just want plain old safety und fair play

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Just to point out that whilst not condoning any of the actions of the cyclists mentioned, there is no requirement in law in this country to give priority to any vehicle running with "blues & twos". These signal a request for the courtesy of precedence - they do not give any right of way.

True.. we use 'em to warn we are there. Highway Code 255 tells you to be aware that there may be an incident ahead.. but then could be any emergency call - couldn't it

Rule 194 tells you not to panic but to consider our route from our positioning and try to find a safe place to give us all room to pass .. but do NOT place yourself or anyone else in danger. If them traffic lights are on a red and all lanes are full.. er - stay there! Do not go through on red to let us through.. we will sort out how to get through solid cars somehow ....Um .. we've all been trained in response ... let's put it that way

And nope .. we ain't in search of doughnuts .. exploded .. unexploded or freshly made either .. (just for my dear daft young cousin... )

As for the cyclists.. when I've been with my two younger kids on steepies - me and Alice (my wife) - have ridden on their outside to protect against the traffic and just gently paced them up there. Never ride more than two abreast.. can upset other road users Not about "rights"... tis the Highway Code - which is a melange of legal and courtesy rules Sure - no one can be perfect and we can all slip up and disobey these rules (um - usually the - er - ones to do with - um .. speed ) - but general compliance and a bit of common sense never go amiss

(trying to build bridges - touchy lot .... slightest insinuation that they may be in the wrong and - whhoooopps .. we are all those 'orrid 159 mph people instead of those who try to at least promote a safe speed at all times )

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I understand people "guarding" their children on bikes, but what I saw was deliberate blocking of the traffic, with one of the adults cycling just to the left of the centre white line - this is an urban A road by the way

god forbid that people should actually overtake cyclists safely.

Look johnsher - before you get defensive on their behalf - I know the difference between people cycling normally - who have every right to expect cars to pass them in a safe and responsible manner AND to "guard " child cyclists - and a group of people who deliberately riding in such a manner as to block traffic. As I said, this was a busy urban A road, but fairly wide - and cyclists use it regularly without creating a lengthy traffic queue and holding up emergency vehicles. We have had cycling events go up this hill involving numbers of cyclists without the distruption these people were causing.

This is not a case of a driving complaining about "two abreast" cycling - this was riding in such a manner as to cause maximum disruption - on purpose.

I am not anti-bike - please don't start implying I am.

Ah - but John - if they were four abreast .. would be nigh on impossible to overtake them.

I'd be to the outside of the kids as said .. pacing them up there and may have tucked in behind my child in secondary - dependent on whatever the situation was ..

You know there are a lot of courses for safe cycling and many designed for families... all it needs is a call to the CTC to get the details of local courses. That initiative is one very welcome one.. training all up to a required standard and even helping parents cope with family rides out there.,, as I know from experience of riding with my own and Ted's family .. you really have your work cut out keeping them all together and safe

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

How refreshing to drive in France this week, and see cars and bikes cooperating 99% of the time.

We went to St.Malo on Sunday, and saw dozens of cyclists. even on the busy main roads, and no signs of conflict at all!
I postponed an overtake of a cyclist on the D166 because another cyclist was coming the other way, and was also about to be passed, and the cyclist on my side waved a hand as I finally went past to acknowledge my patience!

Motorcyclists too raise a hand when you have kept over to allow them past more easily - as many do in Britain.

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If they've never had the training - I think it would be possible to misinterpret cyclecraft to be doing this, in a similar way it would be possible to be misinterpreting advanced driving advice to be on the right hand side of the road entering any left handers. Seems like an advert for advanced road user training imo.

Different culture ....and maybe cyclists and drivers alike better trained.

Either that or all mellowed by Sunday lunch I've had some of those Brittany lunches .. mmmmmmmm! in the past....


Also .. here .. British disease of bad manners or lack of common sense by each party also par for the course

Problem seems to be "four abreast" on a steepish urban gradient - normal width - when two abreast would have been more in keeping with the Highway Code.


If only folk out there would just read it more often.. Would reduce a lot of incidents

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

how is it that people seem to manage to overtake other vehicles without major problems then?



was there last week as well, and you're right. In France (at least in the towns, I haven't ridden in any big cities) the drivers generally will wait patiently behind until an overtake presents itself. Often you'll get a little beep to let you know that they're about to come past and then a wave and/or a "chapeau" - the only notable exceptions to patience/politeness I've encountered so far have been cars with GB plates
btw, you can also add Belgium and Germany to the list (btw I also managed to get in several laps of the 'ring in the wet before anyone starts to think I'm some sort of lentil munching hippy)

I think I have failed to describe the incident very well - I apologise for that.

To clarify - what I saw appeared to me to be four cyclists wearing no safety gear but identical green shirts with white writing on (couldn't read it at the distance in question). Two appeared to be children and were cylcling at a safe distance from the kerb (neither too close or too far). One appeared to an adult an was riding in the "further out" position I would have excepted of an adult who was maybe protecting the children (possibly worried they might wobble perhaps). These three would have presented a "normal" piece of "cycle traffic" on the road in question and whilst they may have slowed traffic could have been negotiated safely (for all). BUT in this case the fourth cyclist was riding in a position occupying the outside third of that side of the road and was weaving from the two-thirds from the kerb position to essentially the middle of the road. Consequently, given fair traffic in both directions, the car behind was unable to pass without chancing this cyclist weaving into their path. This caused the tailback with the ambulance about three vehicles back from the lead car.


Frankly, given the behaviour I saw - plus the "uniform" shirts - I assumed they were making some sort of protest - and was angry a) that they would hold up an emergency vehicle and b) that adults would involve children in what could be a dangerous activity.

In hindsight, I have overlooked the possibly of incompetence or stupidity and I apologise for that - if that was the case they still needed a damn good telling off though - in my view.

Paris, Strasbourg, Metz and couple of others are not that cosy for anyone

John... if you are to give the cyclists room and there were kiddies on the outside of their parents - and a larger vehicle in the shape of an ambulance .. plus oncoming traffic ..then may not have been possible to overtake. This was a steep hill - so there may have been honking wobbles as well.

Four cyclists riding four abreast is not per the Highway Code. We would have stopped them to explain this to them here .. and it has nothing to do with "rights" to be on the road. No one is disputing their right to be riding there .. but simply pointing out that the Highway Code gives out sensible advice and with kids - would have been far safer to have been in twos with each parent protecting the child on that climb as I understand it. Could be they just did not realise this rule exists. Perhaps they misinterpreted "primary" advice. After all a staggering number allegedly don't know what basic signs mean - and we ain't talking speed lollies.





I do not think I come across cyclists abroad who try to hold up other road users and appear to be doing so for the sake of it to the casual onlooker ... all co-operate and work together. Don't think I've come across four abreast that often though - or rather when I have on a country road in France. they just tucked to single file and with a gallic shrug and smile .. just waved..

In my area - anyone who we think needs a quiet discretionary (cough) word gets it regardless of whether they in car on bike or on a horse or drunk on two legs.

But you still cannot get away from Rule 51 which advises not to ride more than two abreast and adopt single file on busy roads and to be considerate of other road users

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Since the original question is "is it stupid cyclist sunday?" here is one that I encountered on Sunday.

I've been in Reading, at "The Oracle" and am trying to find my way out, when I notice two cyclists in a bus lane, nothing wrong with that.

The road in question has a bus lane, two lanes going in the same direction and ends with a bus lane going in the opposite direction.

They were travelling in the same direction as me, but were in the bus lane going the other way.

And it was dark and they had no lights.

A minute or so later and I saw a bus coming the other way in that lane, no idea what the outcome was.

Nice - a new one on my vocab IG.

btw.... why was the ambulance 3rd car back in the queue?.. even if he was biding his time due to the cyclists surely the 2 cars in front would have pulled over to let him through..