Safe Speed Forums

The roundabout isn't big enough to warrant a left lean and then a switch to the right lean. I would have been leaning slightly to the right as he pulled out.

Its difficult to pinpoint the exact spot I was in when the car pulled out. I was far enough away to take evasive action but too close for him to have pulled out safely without me having to take evasive action, if that makes any sense. It all happened so quickly, my reactions to the first hazard were somewhat automatic, it happens alot, my reations to the second hazard were panicked. In the back of my mind, I must have realised I wouldn't be able to avoid the collision and panic took over.
I cant help but wonder if I'd had an extra foot of road, would I have stopped in time? Which is why I asked the question about the pedestrian lights in the first place. I suppose thats irrelevant too though because if the first car hadn't done his emergency stop, the car I collided with wouldn't have either and there would have been that extra bit of space. But then, if that car driver had seen me and not pulled out, I wouldn't be posting this, would I?

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

I am interested in what others would have done if they had been put in this position.

As I see it, I had several options:

Emergency brake when car pulled out and hope that
a) I stop in time and
b) I dont get rear ended myself

or

Switch to the inside lane and go round island again and again hope that nothing is lurking there (do you have time to check under the circumstances before executing a safe manouvre?)

or

Do as I did?

or

Any other options you may have yourselves .

As you can imagine, I am VERY interested in avoiding a similar occurance and any imput as to how it can be avoided in the future would be very much appreciated!

And quit riding a bike and get a car is not an option!

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Please enlighten this non-biker. Which is worse? Getting rear ended by a car or hitting the back of one like you did? Neither sound like a lot of laughs but rear end is only a maybe so probably it's worth trying to stop.

If you saw the hazard ahead in time this might be an option. Trouble is, having been carved up like that it's only natural to look at the idiot responsible in the first place. No telling what they'll do after all. Maybe they'd carry on ahead and enter the inner area of the roundabout that you're thinking of escaping to

How about a nice MOD cast off armoured Land Rover then?

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Sorry to hear about your accident and I have been thinking what I would do in the same circumstances. Please note I am making some assumptions here.

From your drawing and description it looks to me as the road that you were on and the exit you were aiming for are two lanes wide.

It's the end of a day and with this time of year it is either full dark or dusk and people are using their headlights.

So driver X pulls out in front. I think I would swerve away from him towards the right. If I can be sure that nothing is going to be on my right or trying to overtake on the inside of the roundabout. Indicate right and carry on round the roundabout. In these circumstances there is no time to look so it all depends on previous observations whilst approaching the roundabout.

If I'm not sure that there is nothing is on my right I would try to keep as close to the driver X pulling out as possible still keeping to the right, whilst using as little of the right hand land as possible and then going forward and taking the next exit.

I would not do an emergency stop on a roundabout in this circumstance. I really don't like the idea of being rear ended on a bike. But I don't think that I would accelerate here. At least not until I am off the roundabout and clear of driver X.

So hopefully I would be able to make the emergency stop behind the car braking for the lights or if I have enough time and space I would try to brake along side him either on his right which might be risky due to oncoming traffic or on his left and hope that driver X having not seen me on the roundabout will see the brake lights.

But I have had about 45 mins to think of this you had 4 - 5 seconds. Think you were unlucky to have 2 incidents of bad driving in such a short space of time.

Hope your recovery is quick and that the bike is not bashed up too much.

_________________
tanj There Ain't No Justice

Hi ped,

There are two exit lanes on each exit and there was certainly more traffic on the island than I have put on the diagram, it was difficult enough to do the diagram so just showed vehicles involved.
From what I could see, there was nowhere else to go ahead of me. I have absolutely no idea if there was anything lurking in the right hand lane of the island because by this time, all my attention was on the potential collision with the car that had pulled out and then the fact that my route of escape had turned into a bit of a trap.
Personally, I wouldn't like to do emergency stop on island either, rear ending, I think, would have been worse.

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Well that would depend on what you hit or what hits you and the speed the collision occurs at.
In the circumstances I found myself in? Prefer to hit a car than be hit.

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

If I had the choice of either hitting a car in the rear, or being hit by the same car in the rear then I would chose to hit the car.

You are more likely to stay in control after the collision and the forks, suspension and your arms should help soak up the impact. You are in control of where the hit is going to take place. The momentum of a bike at speed x is far less than that of a car at speed x.

If you are hit from the rear then you generally don't know exactly when the impact is going to occur and so cannot brace for it. Unless you are looking in the mirrors, not usually the thing to do when executing an emergency stop. The back wheel of the bike is almost certainly the first thing hit causing the bike to shoot forward. Either you fall off backward and land on the bonnet or road in front of a moving car, or to the side possible trapped underneath the bike.

_________________
tanj There Ain't No Justice

Well thankfully, I don't have much personal experience of motorcycle collisions! Don't want any more either !
I think you're right though Ped, its gotta be better to see it coming like I did rather than not knowing what hit you! When you know whats coming, there may be something that can be done to at least lessen the consequences (as long as panic doesn't take over ), if you don't know you're gonna be involved in a collision, that forethought and control over your reactions is taken away.
Does that make any sense? Can't concerntrate with all the noise of the fireworks going off!

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Without trying to be condescending, I think the first thing I would have done would have been to assume that the driver was going to come out in front of me in the first place! I always assume the worst when going around roundabouts, passing junctions etc.

Having said that, without actually experiencing things in real time it's difficult to criticise. Who's to say how much time you had to react in the first place?

When I approach a junction or negotiate a roundabout where a car is waiting to pull out, I do always assume the driver will pull out and I get ready to take evasive action. However, until that drivre does do something daft, I cant take the evasive action. If I took evasive action or braked sudddenly before driver makes his move, I could be the one responsible for causing an accident if driver actually stays put.
I did assume the worst, I assumed that the driver that pulled out was going to go straight on. The diagram doesn't really show the full story. My swerve was perhaps a little more erratic than it shows, perhaps a little too erratic. The more I think about it and analyze the event, the more 'escape routes' occur to me. I am now thinking that if I had known exactly where the driver was headed when I took evasive action, I could have lessened the 'swerve' and maybe slipped in between him and the car I hit. But then, I have thought about the events of last Sunday night almost non stop, mulling over what action I would take if I could turn back the time, thinking about how much worse it could have turned out, wondering if I am going to find that I have lost some of my confidence when I finally get the bike back and get fit again. Thats a lot of thinking time, I didn't have that luxury last week!

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Is this island/roundabout controlled by lights? There are a few down south where the roundabout is controlled by lights with seperate pedestrian crossings. I had a recent near miss when someone cut in front of me when I had a green light. (Exchange yellow car for me and blue route for other vehicle)The cause! He had a green light aswell, green to go over the pedestrian crossing though, not to enter the roundabout. Quite simply too much information coupled with bad light phases. The diagram shows a similar sort of problem. Even if this was not a controlled roundabout, could yellow driver think it was? A green light for the pedestrian crossing = the assumption that one has right of way to enter the roundabout.

The only lights were the pedestrian crossing lights and they are close to the island but not close enough to be mistaken for traffic control lights.

_________________
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.