Safe Speed Forums

INCITING HATRED

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

No, pal. I'm not forgetting anything. I responded to the ludicrous argument you advanced.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Why is it ludicrous? Do you think it's sensible to purchase and operate a 2 tonne pickup truck or SUV in an entirely urban setting that delivers less than 10 miles per gallon and emits nearly as much pollution than three VW Golf TDi's?

Or it is that selfish aspect which runs throughout this forum coming through again? I /can/ do it, so I /will/ do it. Looks like it!

Because your stated basis for objecting to SUVs actually caught all sorts of vehicles that are not SUVs.



If you REALLY want to save the planet, I recommend steralisation. I do not say this because your thoughts are polluting, although it is tempting. I say it because the greatest source of pollution is a human being. The lifetime carbon output of a single western individual is probably about 700 tonnes of CO2 and that's without factoring in the indirect carbon consumed in manufacturing his material possessions (probably 2,000 tonnes in total).

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

my wife has a Discovery and drives 5k miles pa, i have a 2litre 306 and drive 25k pa --- who is the more polluting???

as an aside, she had a nasty experience at the weekend where her nsf wheel fell off!! luckily she was only 30-40 (tdi's arent particularly quick cars) and no-one was injured (only my wallet). Now its interesting that we could only find 1 nut and there is absolutely no damage to the wheel or threads - my conclusion is that someone in either Wickes/Asda carparks or outside our house tried to steal the wheel or as an anti 4x4 protest.

the car is regularly maintained and had been to the garage 6 weeks ago for its MOT so I dont think it was a sloppy mechanic.

I think Paul is right to look at the anti4x4 movement as inciting hatred, are we not told to be more tolerant of minorities?? whether that is a minority religion, race or type of vehicle......

Yes, and we established that the majority of the population don't own these admittedly high polluting vehicles, yet there are about 2-2.5 million registered SUVs on our roads.



Yet again you avoid the question, so I'll ask again. Is it appropriate to drive a 2 tonne pickup truck or SUV in an entirely urban area when the primary use is for commuting and picking the kids up?

If you drove the Discovery only in an urban environment, and the 306 as an average car (combination of all roads), they'd possibly be equivalent. I haven't got the pollutant figures for these vehicles to hand though, so I can't confirm anything!

Laugh all you like, I qualified my statement by referring to the number of ocupants and the activity that can be carried out (blocking roads) and I followed up with a similar mild dislike to any / all vehcles that block roads.

I guess it doesn't suit your argument to read or try to understand the whole sentiment.

My wife's car is larger than most, but all seats are occupied as we have a large family. She also would never block a road - even with 4 kids she prefers to drive near to the school and walk them from a suitable off road car park, as opposed to "owning" the road and parking so our children would only have to waddle a few feet.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Mpaton 2004 and any other anti-4x4 people reading.

My other half has an 'SUV'. He has it because we use it for TOWING. You got that? Its used FOR ONE OF ITS INTENDED PURPOSES. Launching and retrieving a boat on a slippery 1 in 5 slip-way at low water is EXTREMELY difficult in a normal 2WD car and it certainly isn't very good for it.

The SUV returned something like 32mpg whilst towing in CORNWALL. My CAR returns 36mpg whilst towing on the MOTORWAY. Would you suggest that we buy a 3rd car so that he can drive to work with a clear conscience?

Get over yourselves.

People have the right tp drive whatever the hell they choose - its called freedom of choice and its part and parcel of living in a democratic society. By going round VANDALISING people's property you are acting no better than a TERRORIST. Have your opinion, that's fine but don't you DARE try to impose it on me.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

OK you anti-4x4 guys. Just tell me what type of car you have and I'll make up some reason (backed up by solid argument) for hating them and wanting them banned.

Examples:

Prius - high energy and resource usage to make it and then dispose of it at end of life.
Any Older Car - polluting, not latest clean technology

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

In case you hadn't realised, we were talking about 4x4's used for purely city driving. If you need the car for genuine reasons, other than to take the kids to school and sit in traffic jams on your 3 mile commute, then there's no real issue there. I don't condone vandalism of anyone's property, regardless of the reasons.

But there's that selfish aspect again. "I have the right to do x, y and z regardless what anyone else thinks" - that's why the arguments against speed cameras will never succeed and why we have such atrocious driving standards.

"I can speed, so I will"
"I can buy this 8 litre 4x4 and get 2mpg on my 3 minute drive to work, so I will"

When people start thinking of others again, then we can start to make progress. You want to know why it was better years ago? People had respect for each other.

If the vehicle is road legal, then I don't see why not.

You have to remember that people buy a car for a variety of purposes and much of the time any vehicle isn't going to be used to its full capabilities.

And can you honestly say that you have never bought anything in your life that wasn't even a teensy-weensy bit more extravagant than what you actually need?

Where do you draw the line between what is appropriate or not? Is it appropriate to drive a 2 tonne saloon car in an urban area? Or a car with a 4 litre engine?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

OK, well I doubt whether anyone uses a 4x4 purely for city driving, and nothing else, so no problem then

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

That's not a majority either is it? And what if it was?

The majority use vehicles which weigh over 1 tonne and are capable of carrying more passengers than are cuurently inside. Is that wrong?

Where do you draw the line and why?



Yes. If that is their choice, then yes.

The far higher ideal is that we live in a free society where people make individual choices. That's their right. Are you trying to erode that right by inciting hatred?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Come on man, just go down King Street in Manchester and look at the fleet of SUVs

Hmmmm, I'm going to open myself up to being shot at now, but I agree with mpaton2004, but maybe not for the same reasons.

I hate these huge 4x4's because in my experience it seems to engender in the driver a 'bullying' attitude and they seem to drive accordingly.

Similarly, BMW's & Mercs. I know it's stereotyping, but in my experience, these drivers tend to be the worst...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Time and again, "received wisdom" peddled by (so called) experts and politicians has been shown to be wrong in hindsight.

So whose opinion do you think I should respect in preference to my own? Tony Blair's; David Cameron's? These people will say anything to get elected. At least my opinion isn't formed by trying to suck up to anyone else.

It is just these type of control freak politicians who want to order every aspect of our lives that engender what you describe as a "selfish aspect" to people's attitudes.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

So none of those are ever used outside the city, are they?

Look, people with big wallets have always bought big cars. Stop whingeing and live with it.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Politics has got nothing to do with it really. I drive a BMW, I just don't drive it in the sole domain of a city centre. It's about common sense! Petrol is expensive enough!

A side issue, but I wonder what proportion of world oil price increases can be attributed solely to the gross inefficiency of American cars over the last 40 years? Even the modern ones don't manage much over 30mpg.

so why have (any) car at all - i use my car for 3hrs a day on average during the week, at the weekend its more like an hour....so why have something that sits around doing nothing for 21hrs a day???

Last i heard people had freedom of choice...if I want a 40inch LCD i will buy it as opposed to a 25inch CRT...same thinking for vehicles. Admittedly my wife runs the kids to school in the Discovery - so what! At the weekends she tows a horsebox around which is the reason for which we bought it. Yes, we use it to go shopping in, yes we take day trips in it (without the horsebox), yes, we ferry the kids to sports events, etc. I cant afford to run more than two cars (out of necessity, not extravagance), perhaps the anti4x4 tw*ts can buy me another car and then i will use the Discovery less.....

if someone can invent a car that can tow a horsebox, appease the anti4x4 idiots, not pollute the environment, give 100mpg, never breakdown, be cheap to insure, blah blah blah - I'll have one.

Choices of vehicles are based on many factors and sometimes compromises have to be made.