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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 07:41 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008 ... ce.ukcrime
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Police complacency led to crash, says jury• PC convicted after fatal collision on B-road
• Force criticised over high-speed exerciseHelen Carter The Guardian, Wednesday October 8 2008
Article history

The scene of the accident last October. Photograph: Lancashire Police/PA

A jury yesterday convicted a police constable of careless driving, then sent a note to the trial judge accusing his force of "institutionalised complacency" for allowing a poorly managed high-speed training exercise on a country lane which resulted in a fatal collision.

PC Sean Schofield, 38, an advanced driver with Lancashire police, had been at the wheel of a high-performance Volvo T5 travelling at speeds of up to 104mph during the training exercise on a winding B road. He crossed on to the wrong side of the road at 94mph and crashed the vehicle on a bend, killing retired academic Peter Williams and injuring his wife, Jean.

The impact of the collision in November 2006 on the B6254 near Over Kellet, Carnforth, which had a 60mph speed limit, shunted the couple's VW Touran backwards and spun it 180 degrees.

Schofield, who was acquitted of causing death by dangerous driving, was testing in-car Vascar equipment. This involved him chasing a car driven by trainer PC Andrew Massingham to register its speed.

The jury's note, which the judge said he fully endorsed, read: "The course was flawed by poor management, poor design and poor preparation from the highest level. We believe the Lancashire police force were guilty of institutionalised complacency with regards to training and driving at high speeds on open, public roads.

The jurors went on to make suggestions for all police forces: no training to exceed national speed limits on A-D roads unless they are closed to the public; training routes should be identified and risk assessed; and a risk assessment should be carried out for Vascar training.

Massingham was acquitted of causing death by dangerous driving and did not face the alternative charge. There was also a message for him from the jurors: "We believe that PC Massingham ... was also guilty of careless driving and shares the responsibility for this tragic accident," they said. Ten months after the crash, he was banned from driving for 28 days when he was caught driving at 92mph.

Williams, 67, who was travelling from his home in Bolton-le-Sands, Lancashire, for a short break with his wife in the Yorkshire Dales, died in hospital the next day. His widow, Jean, 65, told the court she saw two police cars hurtling towards them, recalling how one appeared to wobble, lose control and cross to the wrong side of the road, on to a grass verge and then back on to the road. Peter Williams was faced with an impossible choice because he "literally had nowhere to go".

Nicholas Johnson, prosecuting, said: "The inevitable followed: a high-speed, high-impact, head-on collision."

Schofield and a colleague, PC Jason Colclough, who was not charged, were being instructed in how to use a Vascar speed gun from a moving vehicle. Both officers were injured. The prosecution said it would have been obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous. The speed was "unsuitable and dangerous for the B road on which they were travelling," Johnson said.

Later, Schofield insisted to investigating officers that he had been travelling at a safe speed, and that Williams's car had been on the wrong side of the road. In evidence, Massingham said: "I was in charge of the course. I found out the following day that Mr Williams had died and it is a difficult burden to carry."

The Independent Police Complaints Commission said it would seek urgent discussions with Lancashire police about the findings of their investigation and if "there will be any disciplinary matters relating to the two officers".

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 09:50 
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Next step will be to stop live pursuits above the posted limit! Makes it rather easy for the criminals to get away as all they have to do is to exceed the limit by a bit and get away... Seems rather stupid to me that the training should never exceed the speed limit as it will mean pursuits will be done under conditions that the driver hasn't met before. If anything I think this will lead to more deaths and injuries as driving done in the heat of the moment is always more problematic. Closing roads to do this is just unrealistic in both practicality and the training environment. Training using simulators is a possible way round it but again are they realistic enough to give a reasonable experience that can be translated onto road driving?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:06 
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Even if they catch them, they get minimal sentences.
The thing to ask is: Is it worth the risk of killing someone ?
At the end of the day the other driver was killed during high speed driving, to train someone to operate a device to obtain the speed of those driving fast...
It's all about getting it right and at minimal risk to others. In that case, they got it wrong.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 13:01 
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Tricky one because we do need Trafpol who are up to the job, and they need to know what the car they're in can do.

But the investigation replicated the incident and you can see the footage:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7657944.stm
The car is clear of the deck on a crest going into a slight lefthander. As the road then rises it should be clear that the road bends beyond the crest. There maybe questions to be asked regarding Lancs Police training but I can't help thinking a better driver would have slowed given how the road was unfolding before him and this officer didn't. It's a straight forward case of driver error, whatever the wider circumstances. Sure his speed has caused eyebrows to be raised, but there are a myriad of crests with bends beyond them all over the land and you could come unstuck on many at less than the speed limit....unless you slow down.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 13:27 
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teabelly wrote:
...Training using simulators is a possible way round it but again are they realistic enough to give a reasonable experience that can be translated onto road driving?


If they can make them realistic enough to train airline pilots, responsible for hundreds of lives at a time, they should be good enough for high speed driver training. (IMHO)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 13:52 
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Beamer wrote:
[If they can make them realistic enough to train airline pilots, responsible for hundreds of lives at a time, they should be good enough for high speed driver training. (IMHO)


I wonder if that's true? I can't fly so I'm guessing a little but once your off the deck and above the trees, pylons etc flying would seem to be fairly straight forward in terms of the interaction between your surroundings and your vehicle. Things are rather different to a car which relies on the very variable grip available every metre it travels.

Modern PC flight simulators are held to be very realistic but despite being able to peddle car fairly quickly on tarmac or gravel I'm hopeless at Colin McRae Rally (other driving simulators are available) despite having a go in one set up in a real Scooby on a hydraulically controlled gimbal - it simply didn't handle like a car and there's little feed back.

Be good if they would work mind

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 14:26 
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Barkstar wrote:
...once your off the deck and above the trees, pylons etc flying would seem to be fairly straight forward in terms of the interaction between your surroundings and your vehicle.


Some of us don't go above the trees/pylons if we can help it, and synthetic training still helps.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 00:30 
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First of all I wish to express my condolences to Mrs Williams and her family at the loss of Peter Williams.

However we have to consider the verdict of the jury and the contents of the note they sent the judge in the light of overall police operations.

It may well be true that the road where the accident took place was not risk assessed. This will be due to a failure of proper police procedures for authorising such training. In Lancashire Constabulary's defence it seems that that particular road was used regularly for this purpose without prior incident. Indeed the trainer himself had been trained on that very road. However, the purpose of a risk assessment is not to eliminate all risks (this would be totally impossible) but to reduce all risks to the minimum. We, the public, have to accept that if high speed training is carried out by police on public roads, on some occasions things will go wrong; if someone is at the wrong place at the wrong time the results can be tragic. It is extremely unfortunate but wherever there is a risk there will be accidents on occasions.

As for the suggestion that police should only train at high speeds on closed roads and that training on open roads should be limited to the speed limit, this would produce flawed training. An officer trained only by that method would not be safe in carrying out a high speed pursuit where necessary; this would be likely to lead to more accidents overall. (or, as Teabelly suggests, will police be limited to the speed limits in a pursuit situation?)

The police deserve our support for carrying out a very difficult job. If they face the prospect of jail every time they make a mistake we can expect that police drivers will refuse to act in a way that may open them to such action. Imagine if no police officer would exceed the speed limit for any reason (they have an exemption from that requirement for good reasons).

What we do need on our roads is highly trained police offers who will be able to take appropriate action to keep the roads safe.

Regards

Malc


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 01:21 
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He wasn't being trained to keep the roads safe. He was driving while someone else was using/being trained to use, a speed measuring device.
In fact, since the training did not need to be carried-out at high speed the death was futile.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 09:38 
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jomukuk wrote:
Even if they catch them, they get minimal sentences.
The thing to ask is: Is it worth the risk of killing someone ?
At the end of the day the other driver was killed during high speed driving, to train someone to operate a device to obtain the speed of those driving fast...
It's all about getting it right and at minimal risk to others. In that case, they got it wrong.



Indeed. Seriously wrong.

We do not expect our teams to place themselves in danger. We have a duty of care to them as their employers as well as the public at large. In fact - we have a duty of care to the idiot we are trying to rein in. The reason why we are trying to do so is to try to prevent an incident.


So .. if the pursuit becomes dangerous to everyone - we abort it. We have the details we need and there are other methods open to us to nail the bugger in the car.

Do we train on rurals? Oh yes. We have to.


I note a report on the black box revealed speeds of 65 mph to 104 mph with the last recorded speed before impact being 90 mph.

On these roads - you feel the speed and the humps as you drive over them. I am sure all on this board identify with me that you not only feel via the car's suspension - but also through the steering wheel. These "feels" help you control the vehicle and modify the speeds accordingly.

Looking at the photo and watching the news - coupled with own exeprience of driving that particular road and similar - I would say that you can hold it safely enough at 80 mph, testing skills and train to use all the doo-dahs to standards required.


Now we also have a duty of care to the public. My first posts to this discussion forum was to reassure "willcove" that we do neither indulge in "reckless behaviour" nor seek to place the public in danger when we train.

I pointed out that we have to train on the roads alongside the public so that we can be equipped to deal appropriately alongside them and not "worry them too much" or "do our best to keep them safe" - but we all know that it only takes one slip in concentration for all of us and a panic on the part of another driver for it all to go badly wrong. (I am not at all suggesting that Mr Williams panicked. I am making a generalised comment that folk do tend to panic and flap when they see a car on sirens and my advice is still the same:

what I said on a different thread ages ago wrote:

Keep calm. maintain steady normal driving, and simply assist the overtake



But all the same - we have a duty of care to others just as everyone else in other professions - and when we audit a road for training purposes - we have cleared it with tbe guvnors and with the other Force's' RPU if we are "training in their patch". We will also have an agreed speed which we would not exceed on such exercises.

If you recall - we lost a valued Inspector because he failed to clear a tasty straight on a motorway when planning an "unseen test route" for candidates to our RPU team. As I recall - when the story was debated on another well known motoring forum - plenty of folk were supporting his ban at the time. Just :roll: because he decided to pick up another colleague to give a lift back to base camp in Durham whilst in the vicinity. He was on his way when he hit the motorway and thought it more suited stretch to test "ability in motorway emergency". It was a "spur of the moment decision" .. and incidentally - we did include the stretch in question on our RPU candidates' advanced tests
:wink: :twisted:

Oh sure when we train up - it will be above the lolly by a wider margin and would land the public in "ban before the beak bother" - but it would still be suited to the road in question. 90 mph? :scratchchin: Not on that humpy style road. We would set at 80 mph on that sort of road and even then - we'd need to be bloody careful.

jomukuk - We do try not to "do dangerous or careless". Nor would I claim that my police training/experience makes me or any other similarly trained officer immune from driver errors. No one person is a robot nor completely perfect when all is said and done.


I certainly would not expect a court to let us off the hook just because of that training if we get something seriously badly wrong.

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