Safe Speed Forums

Ok so ive been here a couple of months now and people may have noticed that I tend to pop up with random questions or situations that have occured in my daily driving routine.

I have been driving for 13 months now and have not yet got a NIP for any offence.

However, the fear of getting a NIP, due to the fact that for the first 24 months I am on a 6 point limit begins to overwhelm me.

Perhaps the reason for this was that I kept having stop start lessons due to money and other issues. I was one of those people who never thought I would pass my test one way or another. Somehow I passed first time and it was like a dream.

However 13 months down the line I find this dream marred by the stress of worry.

Im constantly thinking ' what if I miss a limit sign and end up doing 39 in a 30' So I tend to end up doing about 30 in every area that Im not convinced is above, and less in areas I know are 30's in case my speedo isnt entirely accurate or in case their speed guns are inaccurate.

Everytime something confuses me I start wondering if Ive gone through a red light by accident or something. So I always like there to be a car in front and behind of me so I can watch to make sure I havent.

Its definately an overreaction as I have never yet been through a red light, but the fear is always there that I could make 2 mistakes and they could be minor mistakes ( like missing a speed limit sign) and doing 39 in a 30 and end up with no liscence and basically ruin everything.

Why exactly do new drivers only get 6 points?

Surely the newer drivers are the ones who are best tuned into the new skills, as many older drivers passed their test before it became tough and dont know all of the rules and methods we do now?

Same with other offences too, ones that arent directly based on driving skills. Insurance for example, and dont get me wronmg I fully support fining and even imprisonment of offenders who dont have insurance) but what has that got to do with someones driving ability?

I see so many reckless and destructive drivers about that get away with things either by luck or by knowledge.

Because of my fear of this I know that if I ever did get caught by anything it would be a definately human error, as thats what we are humans not machines, I really dont know what I would do if I ever lost my liscence, as I cannot use public transport and did not prior to driving.

I really dont think the law goes about bringing down accidents and reckless speeding the right way. They make it so that people are so busy checking their speedo and checking for cameras they arent concentrating on other things. People would not be so nervous if it wasnt the case that they have only got to make 2 mistakes and bam!

If anything it is getting worse. Everytime I go out minor things happen and I wonder if everything was ok.

One things for sure though. If I was to get three points, I would not be driving my car one foot untill I passed the 2 year mark, my fear is getting 6 points in one outing.

I guess its irrational since I do drive slowly and carefully, but this is beginning to stress me out more than I would like now, and would like people to help me rationalise it if possible.

Thanks


Rob

This is the problem with our "speed kills" obsessed society of today. So many people are obsessed with not exceeding a speed limit that they "give up" on other important issues like mirrors/signaling, observation and generally sensible driving. I see them all day long, they're not speeding but they are also not concentrtaing on their "proper" driving skills. It must be difficult for young drivers to be so worried about getting points on their licence.
If I were you i would invest in reasonabley priced sat nav that tells you of the speed camera locations, mine does this as well as beeping you when you hit or exceed the speed limit in a camera area and tells you what the speed limits are in the camera areas (mine does get one or two wrong, e.g tells me it's a 30 when it's a 40mph limit but it does make you aware.) Mine also has a bluetooth for mobile calls. Mine retails for about £129 but can probaly be got cheaper off e bay or second hand. A worthwhile investment...oh it's far more accurate than my speedo on both cars too.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Graball? What make and model is that? I have a Road Angel but that doesn't have speed linits in its database so I am thinking of upgrading.

The Road Angel does give a continuous display of speed and I wouldn't be without that. It is more accurate than the speedo and I can position it so that I can see it without taking my eyes off the road. Rob - you really do need something like this.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

What new skills, Rob The skills required in driving a modern car, with all the electronic aids, are probably less than those needed even ten years; and certainly less than those needed forty years ago when I learned to drive. Apart from having the theory part, has the test changed much in those forty years? As for new rules and methods: I think we old men are are quite able to keep up with those just as we do in our professional or business lives

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Mine's a Garmin Nuvi 215, I haven't had it long but I find it does everything I could ever want. I position it by the A pillar so that I can read its speed without glancing down and it is small enough not to cause a blind spot.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Add the http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/subscription.php database as well. Redlights, specs, temps and mobiles http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/activecams.php all updated by the users of the DB. Updated every couple of weeks or more.

Find a new fixed one in the UK and be first to log it and get a free lifetime subscription. £20 per annum.

I think the skills required in driving are only 20% mechanical control of the vehicle and 80% road (COAST?) skills. The requirements of the latter group have gone up dramatically over the years due to more cars, regulations etc. while I agree that the former group may have reduced somewhat. Overall though, I think it's harder to drive now than years ago.

Experience gained in anticipation skills makes it very difficult to judge.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Put the car back in the box it came in, take it back to the shop and swap it for a bicycle by the sounds of it. Your life will be one whole lot less stressful.

Edit:

Yeah til it rains, or I need to get to dorset .

I have a Garmin sat nav, not sure what model, but it beeps when Im coming either up to a speed camera or to an area where you can mobile safety cameras and the speed limits of those roads. Doesnt seem to tell me the speed limit or every road Im on though.

Its helpful I use it all the time, but still there are some things it cant account for.

I will be so relieved when my 24 months is up. My point was about the 6 points for new drivers was its there as though to say a new driver is going to speed or go through red lights, when surely a newer driver is going to be more vigilant and careful than someone whos confident and driven for years. Not all new drivwers are going to be teenage boy racers.

This is down to confidence. As we develop our road skills, ability and knowledge we tend to start to 'relax' 'into the driving'. I think you are getting yourself 'worked up' and in this stressed state you may be priming yourself up 'to' fail.
So what may help you :
... show you how you can gain confidence, not rip what you have to shreds,
... show you how you can relax and enjoy your driving,
How YOU are in control at ALL times, and that this is a Good thing,
That where you have confidences, to build on these and allow them to grow into other areas where you are less confident.
(There's much more but this is the basics)

I am assuming that you would have already afforded a satnav if you could have? Can help you with your route and road lay out and possible camera sites, specific speed, etc
So let's look at this ... First you must TRY to think more positively not negatively. Most things can be phrased as a negative thought or a Positive one. Lets make this into a positive one. eg I have JUST passed a 30 so I *KNOW* (legally and if a cop stopped me) that I have just passed a 30 sign. You can be confident ! As you go along you see various hazards that make you reduce your speed even stop perhaps.
You cannot see a sign but you can see street lights and know that the last sign your saw was 30 - so you proceed at 30 with two pieces of knowledge. (At the moment the majority is 30mph)
As you travel along a few 'tricks & tips' - where the road looks clear (and to practice this ONLY when it is safe), scan the road near to you, glance in mirrors and behind, then back in front, then look as far ahead as as you can see, then, scan back along that 'road ahead' back to the front of your car, noticing everything, and those things that maybe 'in a minute' hazards, that may develop up ahead. This gives you a bit more time to react it also helps you see the road ahead and it's furnishings inc. any traffic lights etc.
If ever something closer to you catches your eye then glance at it - that helps you to see if it is a hazard or not. Things near your car will likely take priority. When clear scan back up the road again see what maybe happening in a moment, and scan back nearer to the car and around the car (mirrors) - including a glance at the dashboard to check that all instruments are OK too.

Ensure that you have a 2 sec gap to the car in front (give you time to react (to them, to others, to hazards).

The aim here is to enable you for feel In Control.
It will take some time so take it easy and go carefully.

Now where you have a quiet road - perhaps take a few early morning trips and go out of town (assume that you are 'in' town), try different scenery. When you go to a new area you naturally realise (in principal) that signs are as the Highway Code shows and that road marks also conform to those rules. The countryside is more spread out and may help you to relax a little more, but keep a close watch on farm gates and driveways etc !
In other words the roadside furnishings are identical but more spread out. This helps you to build up confidence in your surroundings, and then realise that you are recognising these familiar markings and so in turn help you to see things more easily, and to then digest the information and act accordingly to those notices.
I would recommend that you go to the IAM or other car training organisation, perhaps read some books too, to reinforce & expand your knowledge. They spend some time on observations and this would help you too, not only to help you 'see things' but also to inspire confidence that you *have* seen things and can rely on your good and growing observational skills.

What sort of things confuse you ? and in what way?

They introduced it to try and reduce the KSI's (Killed & seriously Injured). It is indirectly trying to target speeding as many young drivers 'may' get into trouble as their experience is less. The aim that you may then be off the road in favour of further training goes wrong when the expense is so great it all becomes something to fear and become potentially paranoid about.
However if you always choose an appropriate speed to the conditions - so that you can stop (comfortably on your side of the road) in the distance that you can see to be CLEAR in, then you will be fine.
Clear means including ALL hazards and potential hazards, and having good awareness and observation all about you so that you can be sure about your immediate and local area as you drive.

Well like with most things the 'old times' are very experienced, and that gives them knowledge and skill, and that helps their ability, the new rules and reg they should (and many do) keep up to date with, so, couple experience with knowledge and that can make a safer driver. Much is discussed about how older drivers have formed bad habits, and this can happen, but this is where the Government programs should be continually reminding with good quality on-going education for all road users.

A big and difficult problem, one that may well be solved in a variety of ways (easily suitable for another thread - and has been ! )
They are not driving skills, you are right they are paperwork, and are needed to satisfy rules and regulations.

Humm well without us 'seeing' too it would be hard to judge appropriately. You say yourself that they might be doing something with knowledge that you are unaware of. Perhaps explain one ? Be very happy to suggest possibilities which might give you an in-sight to

Your best recourse here is to improve your skills so that you can feel more confident and comfortable within your environment.

Many experienced drivers akin this to 'like driving blind', as they have to spend a proportion of time, instead of on observation on the road ahead and all about them, but on their speedo. This is crucial as it changes the persons focus and it takes precious time to re-look and re-focus in both locations from a camera (or a possible camera) and the speedo, hence why Safe Speed exists to fight this non-sense and bad 'driver behaviours' that are a direct 'effect' of camera installations.

Worrying? How do you mean? The AA did a report years ago showing that they found that people would have 5 near misses and the 6th was a crash.

Your aim should be to not get any points for any reason and not try to 'obsess' about the first 6, try to see this as a way to put abilities in place so once after the 2yr period you are unlikely not the get any points thereafter either ! Learn skills which will remain with you for all your driving career, not just the next year but for the next 40 or 50 years !
Driving well is possible for everyone, and we can always do better, we are all still learning and growing. There are many ways in which to improve and learn and grow. There are private lessons from instructors that can take you out and go through the things which you find a particular problem, to groups who meet like the IAM.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

By admitting you have problems with your driving you have taken the first step to becoming a safer driver. I suppose it was inevitable, given the ethos of this site that the majority of responses would advise you to get some kind of camera warning device. As you have not given any indication of frequently ignoring the limit but have stated your concerns about missing a sign, it seems to me that a better idea would be some kind of advanced driver training.


My personal view is rather different. Going by the numbers I see in court an awful lot of new drivers assume they know it all and have no need to develop their skills any further.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I second this 100%, don't be put off by the 'advanced ' title, you will receive vital driving and safety skills. Look for your nearest IAM or RoSPA centre, they are run by very experienced drivers, not petrol heads.


Whilst this is true, Rob is showing huge maturity in wishing to further his driving by asking questions. Remember Eisteins quote: "The trick is, never stop asking questions"

I'd say turn off the warning features and don't relay on the satnav to tell you about the outside world, use your eyes.

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I'd say turn off the warning features and don't relay on the satnav to tell you about the outside world, use your eyes.
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weepej, doesn't do a lot of driving so I wouldn't take too much notice of him , Rob.

My sat nav doesn't tell me the speed limits on all roads but it does for the ones where there are camera sites. The best thing is to have it switched on all the time but use it as an audible warning. The rest of the time keep you eyes peeled for speed limit signs to warn you of a change in limit and the obvious yellow boxes on poles or camera vans. Try not to be too obsessed with staring at the speedo, it's much more important to observe the road and what's happening around you.
if you are in an area where you are not sure of the limit, observe what speed the majority of traffic is flowing at (if there is other traffic.) As Claire said if there are lamposts but no other speed signs it's best to assume it's a 30MPH limit, but this isn't always the case. I've driven at 30MPH for quite a way before seeing the odd 40MPH sign in some places, they bang on about speed limits being the be all and end all to safety but don't want you to know what the limit is in some areas, it seems.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

To be fair I think that Graball's advise was to get a device which warned you of the current speed limit as well as camera locations. IMO getting confused about the limit is one of the main reasons why drivers who have no problems with the concept of speed limits still get NIPed.

Unlike many denizens of these forums I quite welcome the idea of advisory ISA

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Uh?

I've put 20,000 miles on my Audi in two years.

I drive quite a lot in London and environs, mainly at weekends and quite often go further afield.

Sounds like essexrob is fixated on the bongs from his satnav, he needs to turn them off if he wants a more relaxed ride.

20,000 miles in two years is nothing weepej,that's just the average mileage for mr average commuter. i've done over 75,000 in one year before now and over my lifetime have averaged about 35,000 per annum.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Cor, is this top trumps?

No but I don't really think that the advice that you are giving Rob is going to help him, personally.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I do.

Filling a car with gadgets that bing and bong (and can also get it wrong, so what do you trust, the gadget or your eyes?) is not the best way to go IMO.

And you certainly don't need to stare at your speedo.