Safe Speed Forums

But are they more deserving of priority than bikes? Or less so? Or the same?


I'm sorry, I never realised you were such a fan of private motorised transport; please accept my apology. I'd always thought you saw transport as on some kind of moral scale, with pedestrians & bikes at the top, public transport in the middle, and cars & lorries at the bottom. Once again, apologies for my silly error.

Jumping into your debate briefly, I would suggest this would depend on what you're hoping to achieve. Bicycles have the advantage of taking up less road space than other road users (well, a normal diamond framed one anyway!) including four people in one car, though full double decker buses would probably be a better option. So if the objective is to reduce congestion, then they have one major advantage in that respect.

If you take into account environmental factors, both locally and globally (if you believe the IPPC on the latter) then again bicycles have a major advantage over other vehicles.

If you're looking at health factors, and accept that car-use encourages a sedentary lifestyle, again bicycles are the better option.

Thinking about it, the only advantages a car has over a bicycle is comfort and speed (at a particular time of day, time of year and journey start and finish locations). What impact this has on "deserving priority" is an interesting question...

I won't dispute the many advantages bikes have over other forms of transport, but something very significant that can't be done with them is carry stuff like tools, shopping, produce... Then there is the issue of having kids in tow, especially when there are several of them. Few will them seriously when significant distances need to be traversed, even less if they don't want to get wet. Then there's the elderly...

Biking is great, but there will always be a big place for private motorised transport.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Quite right Steve, I was thinking of my own personal circumstances. Apologies. It's been a long day!

Although most of the examples you've cited don't have to involve actually owning your own car, anyway I'm conscious we're getting off topic and maybe this is a debate for another thread. Probably when I've had a bit more sleep!

If two or more riders are abreast of each other - then they take up quite a fair bit of road space. I think you would notice a significant amount of "jostling" just as you do on London/Manchester pavements in peak hours.. or when gettting to your seats in a stadium if all of us decided to ride tomorrow.


I also speak from the experience of the recent bike ride with the family. (Yep .. I came last but I preferred to pace behind 'em (well - that's my excuse anyway ) But you had to give each other sufficient room even on the bike - so just because they are narrower does not mean any less congestion of a huge number are using the same road space at the same time. Also .all would have different levels of stamina and ability .. so speed differentials would be very different and would eventually demand a cycling licence under Health $ Safety I tend to look at the hard facts of life and the practicalities if thousands ride to work each day.







Errr.... sweat and farting add .... we admit we did plenty of each during that bike ride

But more seriously - bicycles still have to be manufactured and most are imported these days .. so they are not exactly 100% eco-friendly




Not everyone wants exercise. Now I happen to know that because of what I do for a living You can advise .. but you cannot force folk to do or follow advice.

There are also as Steve points out . the elderly.. the disabled. Perhaps you would like to explain to my nephew how he may ride a bicycle given he lost his legs as a toddler .. complications from meningitis

What we are saying is that one size does not fit all and that whilst bicycles may be OK/ideal for some (not all ) folk for short commutes to work and back/small treks for the newspaper and the odd loaf at ye olde corner shoppe .. but for the practicalities and varied needs of all our lifestyles - a bicycle cannot be the "better option" overall.




If you seriously think about what I have said above - a car has many more advantages over a bicycle. We would not have a hope in hell of feeding our huge family without our cars. As you may be aware - my wife was taken quite worryng ill after giving birth to our twins.. and required regular hospital treatment for the last 6 months. She's only recently been passed fit again and the reason why she was advised not to drive was because of the general weakness following pernicious anaemia and some other complications which resulted from what was a hard pregnancy to go through this time. But anyway .. I certainly missed her contribution to the realities of rural family life here .


OK so I have a Jaguar estate. Wildy being Wildy prefers a sportier version We own a people carrier and use that and the estate car for the collective family trips. A family of 14 persons on bicycles including babies in a trailer take up space and believe me.. wayyyy tooo much onus of supervision in keeping us together and safe. I'd suggest you try it to find out/experience for yourselves what I am talking about If I was cutting down a one way street as the leader of the family on bikes ..with Wildy supervising the rear of the "sort of family cycle bus" - I'd be placing us and others in some danger here. We'd be just like a 4x4 in bicycle volume. Likewise if we were in the people carrier


I would expect to negotiate with the other road users and apply courteous give and take .. but perhaps I'd choose to ride within the one way in the first place given the logistics of supervising that many youngsters I only indulge in this when we are holidays as way too tiring to do each day


What I am trying to say and give an extended example of our family situation is that bicycles are great for singletons/dinky/2.4 kid lifestyles but not practical for folk like us who have been a prolific in the bedroom but who love having our kids anyway and I'd not wish to alter one thing about my family life. I adore my family.

Sorry if I am warbelling. I leave the UK tomorrow for a big adventure. and it's an odd feeling.

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Well, quite, but I attended the Skyride in central London at the weekend, 65,000 people travelled round nine mile car free circuit. there were some slow bits but it all kept moving.



If you could fit 16,000 cars in the nine mile route with four people in (I suspect you'd get a maximum of about 3,000 in it nose to tail) I don't think it would move at all.



So do cars, so do shoes, it's a question of scale.



Whoever said they were?!








I don't think anybody is asking people to live without cars, use them less perhaps, and do away with them entirely if you can; they are very expensive to run after all, for a lot of us it would be cheaper overall to get a taxi everywhere.

Using the car less is an expensive alternative.
You still have to maintain the legal requirements for the vehicle/s, and in many cases those are the most costly.
Keeping your car/s and using the taxi/bus just add cost to cost.
Plus, as the amount of private hire vehicles and taxis increase, so does the inherent risk in getting into a vehicle with someone you do not know. In London alone 10 women are sexually attacked by [unlicenced] taxi drivers each MONTH...something like 5000 each year across the country....the figure for licenced drivers is harder to get.....
Not to get too hot under the collar about this, but unwanted sexual advances from taxi drivers are what a lot of women regard as normal when travelling by cab (I even had that...and I'm not female....a sign of the times ?)
Buses are not safe either, and especially not for the drivers.
Sorry weepy....if I go out at night I drive myself....

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I will add my sister Krissi's video of her bike ride in Beijing to our gallery when I get an intake of breath . under circumstance.

I do not ever recall seeing my big sister look so afraid. (well part from that episode in the Yorkshire Dales down a serious gradient.. It was steeper than any alpine back home. She was taken unawares. How the hell she kept on saddle was a mystery. We ended up walkrunning the bikes after her.. following the screams of Mein GOTT HILFE >> und various expletives .. at the time







But still a cost to planet. IG ist full of a bamboo one., but think of the Panda Bear please.

:popcporn:


I do not agree we let them become extinct by the way




Ist opportunity cost. Whatever we do affects something else.. usually to its particular detriment We have to measure value to economy und lives und we never please all really as you know





But this boy has only false limbs. He only has stubs past his groin. This boy attend MGS by the way. He ist intelligent. he still cannot move independently nor go to loo unaided




Not for us .. ..We have 7 results of .. "marital love. none of which we planned.. but that's life We love them all to bits We wanted to give something back to society .. we foster.. end up adopting three as our own That made us "cheaper by the dozen" perhaps We foster others.

All fosters? Oh ja/. we get cash to help. We not spend this. We open bank accounts in their names und build up a nest egg to help their futures. I think we helped them a lot overall.. we have nurtured. soothed. .. seen them through college/apprenticeships of their choices. We hope we helped them all .. we trained them to drive to COAST too. AT OUR EXPENSE!

Yep.. we are not "nice" .. per spinnylike trolls .

I think actions speak a lot louder Und like Jezza Clarkson over the manure/custard pie inface nonsenses ... I must learn to rise above these fools with equal dignity.

Clarkson . whether you agree with his views or not - displays the right objective attitude without emotion.. anger . und all the things I am guilty of recently as result of post natal daftness.

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PS .. I should add that my 16b year old nephew's mama . Julia . Ted's sister ist just super in her coping. Likewise jazz who look after a very challenging maiden aunt aged 83 years. The lady cannot walk far .. ist feisty. difficult patient . But they cope .. und are the unsung/unpaid but 100% decent heroines of life

I take this aside comment to applaud this pair und the COUNTLESS others out there doing this same labour of deep love They have as much courage as frontline soldiers und police officers und do a service which ist never ever applauded as it should be.

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!