Safe Speed Forums

Hi all, spent a long day yesterday driveing about due to the good weather, but the thing i noticed was how many cars (manly chavs) driveing around with no front numberplate on, but in the front windscreen!
abviously to stop the "white van bandits" I was wondering is there a traffic
cop on here, who could give the "official" line on this, what kind of penalty
or warning would you get! BTW im from south wales if that makes any difference, as I know the cops are suposed to have a hard line regarding car related offences down here, cheers

I picked this up off the Higway Code website.

72. Vehicle Condition - You MUST ensure your vehicle and trailer complies with the full requirements of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations and Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations.

Lights, indicators, reflectors and number plates MUST be kept clean and free from obstructions to vision.

it's not just the Chav's that have dodgey number plates. Middle England likes to have non standard fonts and stratigicly placed black screw heads to "enhance" the kiddie carrier.

I seem to remember some person coming on the radio saying how this was being clamped down on but haven't seen much action. It must surely be an MOT failure isn't it???

The maximum fine for not having properly displayed number plates is a £1,000 fine. No points.

But it's almost always a £30 fixed penalty ticket. No points.

If you have a good story you might not even get the ticket...

Personally I think we should all have thrown 'em away years ago as a protest.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Right! and rell me paul, what would you have in place instead, that will enable you to identify a car that makes off after pranging your car.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

Neil,

I'm not criticising what you say, I'd just like to get some perspective - hence the following questions:

What proportion of collisions are hit-and-run?

In what proportion of these cases is a car-owner able to give the registration of the car which pranged them? Particularly if their car is parked at the time?

In what proportion of these does the registration turn out to be cloned, or otherwise false or untraceable?

How often are car registrations used for their 'proper' use, as you described above - as opposed to their use as a means of punishing drivers for parking, exceeding limits etc etc etc?

Cheers
Peter

Sorry - I didn't mean permanently. But when the state started with automated enforcement it would have been best if there had been a short sharp protest. With 10 million cars without numberplates the government would have caved in a few days. Then the number plates could have gone back on.

I think it's too late now - too much propaganda.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Hi Pete,
Well around by my neck of the woods, I'm happy to say that most of my clients are to dull or wasted to think of cloning etc. As a result they keep their vehicles for a while with the same plates, and we learn what cars and index numbers they have.
Hit & runs, around us we get a LOT. The South Wales valleys are a poor area, and therefore quite a few drivers are uninsured, or scared of loosing their no claims, which reflects in the number of fail to stop accidents we have. I'm sure you'll agree that we have to have some sort of identity process with cars, but it will allways be the case that some will ignore/bypass this.

As for parking tickets dont speak... had my first ever punishment by law a few weeks ago in the shape of a parking ticket, mumble mumble.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

Thanks for the reply neil, Im on the other-side of the mountain, the thing is i drive a high performance car, all paid for and all
legal, and the sight of the "boy racers" rideing around with no plates, is very frustrating for people like me and the average road user, and obviously if the plates are of its for a reason! like speeding, and the thought of, even if a cop pulls them, is a small fine of a "bit of a talking too"

A bit of personal experience from the camera vans....

If someone had no plate on the front, or tailgated so close to an artic after being 'pinged' to avoid number detection etc etc, it was the easiest thing in the world to get their rear number. We used to have to do that for bikes in any case.

Locally, if someone has their number plate in their windscreen, they get a warning, if they haven't sorted it by the next sighting they get a ticket. If still no joy ( and I have not experienced this yet - other than with seatbelters) they go to court.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Ian H, In regards to your last statment regarding a second reading on the rear of the vehicle, if you had a detector, like road angel, I would have thought that the first "ping" warning would be enought for the car to slow-down, for the second "rear reading" simular to a jammer, would that be right!

Sorry I think you misunderstand me.

If I had recorded the speed of a vehicle on the camera van, but was unable to read the number, I'd look out of the front, or the other side of the van, read the number and note it down.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

If manual observation / noting down of the number plate is all that is required for a successful prosecution, what's the purpose of the video then?

Or is this a Police / Civilian thing?

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

It's obviously good evidence. Thanks to the Human Rights Acts, and other such things, a policemans...sorry police persons word is not allways good enough anymore.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

I'd have thought that if there were no requirement for the video / photographic evidence to identify the vehicle, that if merely observing and noting down the vehicle registration were sufficient, then the SCPs wouldn't waste their money buying all that expensive video equipment.

We are after all talking about organisations that are so keen to increase their profit margins that they are willing to trust NIPs to first class post simply in order to save the extra few pence cost of recorded delivery!

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Simply progress John,

We used to have to note the number and vehicle type, sex of driver etc, before the widespread use of video.

We use the best evidence available.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

(Emphasis added.)

JT's comment exposes the moral illegitimacy of the 'safety partnership' speed enforcement system.

There is no legal requirement but there is the practical requirement that the remote detection/fast-track enforcement system would be simply unsustainable if any significant proportion of 'offenders' were not persuaded that they have no practical alternative course but to plead guiilty (accept the fixed penalty). Faced with video/photographic evidence of the offence and the fact that that they are compelled to provide self-incriminating evidence of driver identity, the overwhelming majority of suspects pay up and accept the points.

There is no other area of criminal law enforcement whose existence depends on the propensity of 'offenders' to accept their guilt.

That's a valuable observation, Observer! In fact I'm sure I can put it to excellent use. I take it you would be delighted?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

You bet.

The system also plays on the sensibilities of the 'average' driver. Proper owning and running a vehicle (inc. road tax, insurance, maintenance) assumes that you have a certain level of disposable income and a certain respect for (what you are told) is right and wrong. It's very easy (and cost effective) to 'criminalise' such people....