Safe Speed Forums

Hi all,

In preparation for the winter I have purchased a lovely big Volvo (sshhh, don't tell anyone in the motorbike forum). It's an 850 SE 2.0 Auto and it's been a long time since I drove an automatic. I don't have any problems getting it to go where I want to, but I'm finding myself using the brakes far more than I normally would, either on the bike, or in a manual car.

Any top tips for making smooth progress in an auto, especially at lower speeds?

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Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Dont worry!

It is entirly normal to use the brakes more in an auto!

Engine braking is less effective and (Unless you really want too) "Gearing down" for braking is not normal practace.

Yes! You *will* use the brakes more than you might be used too but it would be a mistake to conclude this is *wrong*! It is simply the nature of the machine! just be aware that you will wear them out a little quicker than you might otherwise expect!

As for making good progress at low speeds. (Especially since this is "only" a 2.0 850! ) Just take it easy and let the car do the work for you! Go when you can go, stop when you have to stop but avoid "Drag racing" starts and "Tyre burning " stops (Hmmn Might be tricky for a biker )



D

PS As an aside. One of the problems that the Rover company had with its prototype Gas-Turbine car back in the 50's (!) was that there was *NO* engine braking This actually spooked drivers "Quite" badly!

(You would lift off the gas and just (more or less ) Keep going!)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

It's an amazing difference going from a v-twin with phenomenal engine braking to a 2-litre automatic car which just seems to want to run on regardless.

The big thing for me I think is that I never expect to make progress when I'm in a car; I just assume that I'll be crawling along in never-ending queues of traffic - my mind-set is attuned to that as soon as I sit in the driver's seat. When I am in a slow-moving queue I now I have to sit on the brake to keep the speed down to the same pace as the other traffic. It's a bit weird, and I'm aware that, as the nights draw in, the brake lights will be an irritation to the vehicle behind.

Good job I've avoided the desire to filter to the front. (so far )

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Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Reminds me of old jokes about bikers with newly aquired sidecars who are not yet used to them!



D

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

1) You can get engine braking by using the manual shift function to engage lower gears when you want to coast

2) The great thing about autos is the ability to crawl along in heavy traffic. You need to use you brakes more though. The forward bias is good for hill starts. Don't trust the hand brake at traffic lights, best just to sit with you foot on the brakes.

3) The biggest change is that you should not punch the throttle when you accelerate normaly otherwise it will kick down all the time. This can be very irritating

If you want to have "fun" try....

1) Shift into drive when you have got some revs on. You get an awesome launch

2) If it is a rear wheel drive put you left foot on the brake and the right foot on the throttle. The engine torque overcomes the rear brakes but the fronts stay on. You do what is called a static burnout which involves smoking the tyres without rolling forward......thats what I love about autos

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Speed camera policy Kills

I was told to tie my left shoelace to the seat subframe! (stops you going for the phantom clutch pedal and hitting the brake)!

Seriously, only useful tip I have on autos is NOT to shift into neutral in standing traffic. Best leave in "drive" all the time as then the torque converter takes the "slip". If constantly shifting in and out of "drive", the friction bands in the box take the stick and they are expensive to replace when worn out.

Have had autos for a long time now. My first was because of a gammy knee, but even if it were perfect now, by choice I'd have an auto.

1) The lack of engine braking is an opportunity to read the road ahead and lift off really early. It can be done, and without exaggerating the gap dramatically too - although as said above, brake covering is needed a little earlier than in a manual car when engine braking effort is approximately double for a given road speed.

2) Coming to a smooth rolling stop in a manual car is much easier - you know, lifting the foot off the brake as one stops, avoiding the jerk at the end. In an auto you have to lift off but not quite all the way as you need enough braking to overcome the creep.

3) When going for a sharp gap from a give-way/halt sign, in a manual car it is common to build up flywheel energy so that the clutch drop can give you a sharp take-off. Try this in an auto and you'll hit the one in front! However, a similar achievement can be had in an auto using handbrake, left foot brake or, as I use, toe-and-heel. However, watch it! Only do it a little bit - and get used to it on an empty road before deploying it in anger. Of course, the bigger the engine the less the need for such actions. I have not felt any need to do this at all in my present car.

4) I have seen people really struggle to manoeuvre an auto with a car where the idle is erratic. Obviously keeping a car serviced is a must for that reason. HOWEVER - a tip. I helped out someone in a car park by slotting his car in next to ine having watched him struggle for a while, partly as a favour and partly because I feared for my own car a few years ago. This chap's Granada was buggering about and lurching quite wildly to and fro in our local car park. The trick is to set the accelerator up and control it by gently releassing the brake, either with heel & toe or left foot. Not a lot different to a cold engine really when creep is very pronounced. Revs were fairly high but car was only just creeping. Easy peasy

5) I'm sure Gizmo was joking about shifting into gear with revs on, but this is a way to promote expensive repairs. Not recommended! If you want a good lauch, select the gear withile at idle, but get a good bit of welly on before relesing the foot brake.

'Don't trust the hand brake at traffic lights, best just to sit with you foot on the brakes'



I'm glad I don't live near you!

(Unless you got your handbrake fixed!)

The thing with autos is that the touque converter acts as a torque multiplier at low rpm. If you sit there with the hand brake on in drive and the engine "coughs" you lurch forward and could stuff the car in front. you have to slip it into neutral if you rely on the handbrake only.



Nope....Best carried out on a rental car though, better still if it has a limited slip diff...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Then slip it out of gear......

Not difficult, is it?

Why?

My brother in law bought an RX-8 that came with a prodrive training course. One of the things they advised was when sitting in a queue of traffic to leave a good sized gap between you and the car in front, and to keep your foot on the brake. This was because:

The brake lights are higher intensity, better to attract the attention of the car behind.
If you are shunted forward, the foot brake will limit the amount you travel forward.
If you are shunted forward, the good sized gap will reduce the chance of you hitting the car in front

So by keeping the foot brake on you can reduce the amount of damage and also reduce the chances of you having to pay out (or lose no-claims discount) on a knock for knock basis?[/list]

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Yeah, and dazzle the poor sap who happens to be sat behind you. Its one of my pet hates I'm affraid - being of...lesser stature... I find that my eyes are in direct line with most brake lights. Sat behind someone who's got their foot on the foot brake at traffic lights or whatever is really inpleasent, especially in poor light or darkess.

I would suggest that if the handbrake isn't up to the job then it should be repaired.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

just realised the missing point in my post above, it was "when at the rear of a queue of stationary traffic".

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

That makes sense.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Surely in an automatic you put the handbrake on and put it into neutral, like in a manual? That's what I did when I drove one in Florida. I also used 3rd gear to get some engine braking back!
I didn't like the way the car jerked when changing gears though.

I also noticed that you don't always need to press the button on the stick, for example to go between Drive and Neutral you just push the control stick forwards or backwards. You needed to press the button to get into 3rd but to get back out into Drive you didn't need to press it.

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Andrew.

The drivers handbook on my Saab recommends holding it on the footbrake in drive at lights etc and only putting it into neutral if the stop is going to be "much longer".

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

It was a hire car. As long as I didn't break it it was ok.
I wanted to experiment with how automatic gearboxes worked and I pretty much used it as manually as possible. I got quite used to flicking the control stick into Drive and taking the handbrake off quickly to start moving. The jolting as it changed gear whenever it felt like it was the most annoying thing.

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Andrew.

From the RoSPA publication "The Use of Automatic Gearboxes"

"When stationary in traffic, even for many minutes, it is not necessary to move the gear lever into neutral because the torque converter absorbs the engine’s propulsion force but does not transmit it all to the gearbox. No wear is taking place. In fact, more wear will take place if you engage neutral then engage a drive gear when it is possible to move off. Most gearboxes will automatically select first gear when the vehicle becomes stationary."

To see the whole article, which covers most aspects of auto driving (and is what I do ... ):

http://www.rospa.co.uk/roadsafety/advic ... rboxes.htm

I should have mentioned about the "button" (or lever or whatever).

This is to prevent accidentlal movement of the stick between selections where a double-take is/should be required. This includes:
- Coming out of Park (to anything)
- Going into Reverse (from anything)
- Going into a Low ratio (from anything, but typically from D)
- going In to Park (from anything)

It should not include (and therefore one should NOT be in the habit of using the button) for:
- deselecting gears to go to Neutral (though why one would want to do that.... )
- moving from R or N to Drive.

To go from a forward gear to N should be two stages: to N (without the button) - first stop and then up one more to R (with the button). If you do this as one movement, depending on where you're coming from you might end up with either a box full of Neutral or Park.

Likewise, if one wants to select L from either N or R, go down as far as it will without the button (D), then one more click with the button.